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TSA stands by officers after pat-down of elderly woman in Florida

I work for the fed...have a TS/SCI clearance and have had that same clearance (with 5 year screenings) for almost 30 years now. When I travel I usually travel on government orders. As a courier I could call the airport in advance and be through the gates in no time...it took about as long to flash my ID, letter, and check their list. Today...I dont travel using my federal identification. Its not because of terrorists...its because my experiences with TSA. SOmeone mentioned cattle...thats the BEST way to make the experience go by as quickly as possible...just comply. Dont make a joke...dont express respect or appreciation for what they have to do...dont grouse or complain (CNN ran article where they exposed 30 character traits that called for TSA agents to greater scrutinize individual flyers).
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Dood...how is stating a FACTUAL EXAMPLE over the top hype and rhetoric?

They're reaching about uncertainly, feeling their way? Pretty sure the TSA agents aren't blindfolded or in a dark room, relying singularly on the sense of touch to figure out where they're going.

Are they blindly searching? Or are they checking a specific and viewable location?

Are they attempting to handle or fondle you for sexual pleasure?

How exactly is groping a factual example? Especially given which definition you were clearly implying by talking about people being "felt up" part and parcel with your use of "grope".
 
They're probably looking for both... and it looks to me as if the TSA is using the pat down for terrorism to fulfill their other obligations such as illegal activity. A nice excuse and convenient for the TSA - but again, I'd like to see some statistic on 90+ year old being charged with illegal activity. I'm guessing the 90+ year old demographic will be rather low in comparison to the younger populous.

Probably rather low, though not nonexistant. The issue of course is with zero-tolerance type policies. I can't stand them, but I also understand why those type of things come into account and we'd be lying to ourselves that there wouldn't be complaints still, just for different reasons, if they did that.

You start excusing 90 year olds because they are rarely involved in illegal activity. Okay. Do we put a mark on them when the initial TSA agent checks their ID stating they're over the age? Do we have a seperate line for them that we single them out in. What about the guy that's 89 and 360 days? Do we let him go with the 90+? And if not, are we really expecting not to hear cries of "OMG they patted own the 89 year old guy!" And god forbid if we have a 90 year old come through in a turban and gets let through.

What, you just want to make it a judgement call. Whoah by, look out the first time a muslim gets passed through that the persons judgement says isn't at a risk but he stops a 40 year old white male. The firestorm will be wonderful there.

I'm fine with reexamining the procedures and looking into ways to fix issues, but fix them because there's legitimate issues and not because its making people bitch. Because the only thing that's going to keep people from bitching is going to be the removal of TSA, and that's not really going to stop the bitching because there will still be private security and people will continue to bitch about screeners as they have for AGES.
 
They're reaching about uncertainly, feeling their way? Pretty sure the TSA agents aren't blindfolded or in a dark room, relying singularly on the sense of touch to figure out where they're going.

Are they blindly searching? Or are they checking a specific and viewable location?

Are they attempting to handle or fondle you for sexual pleasure?

How exactly is groping a factual example? Especially given which definition you were clearly implying by talking about people being "felt up" part and parcel with your use of "grope".

Depends on who you ask and who you believe. There are many reports where they are rough and pretty much putting their hands wherever they want. In my situation they USUALLY will talk to me while they are doing it...(and no...darn it...not in some sexxxy "Ima bout to sex you up" voice)...Im going to run my hands here...Im going to touch you here' etc. Ive never had anyone stick their hands inside my pants...however others HAVE.

Heres the thing...why? To what value? They know I have a knee replacement...why would they need to use anything more complex than a wand metal detecter? What do they think they are going to find unless they are touching any and everywhere which they dont? Frankly, if I wanted to smuggle in plastic explosives im thinking there are ways to do that that a pat down simply wont find. At SOME POINT it is OK for us as a country to exercise a little common sense. MAYBE...JUST MAYBE we can stop frisking 90 year old grannies.

Or maybe we should START frisking everyone that rides a subway...before they go into a mall, before they get into a bus terminal or Amtrack station.
 
Or maybe we should START frisking everyone that rides a subway...before they go into a mall, before they get into a bus terminal or Amtrack station.

I have a feeling we're going to double down or triple down on the "stupid". Zyph has a valid point... zero tolerance sucks, but if it's not there, the idiocy is all consuming. Until we can breed common sense into people, I'm afraid we're stuck.
 
'Grope' is simply a commonly used word describing what the TSA agents are and have been doing. There are simply far too many incidents reported to dismiss the reality that some people arent just getting searched professionally.

"According to CNN employee Rosemary Fitzpatrick, a TSA official ran her hands around her breasts, over her stomach, buttocks and her inner thighs, and even touched her most private areas when she recently went through airport security. The following is how Fitzpatrick described how she felt about the experience to CNN....

"As an experienced traveler for work who was in tears for most of the search process, I have never experienced a more traumatic and invasive travel event!"
 
I have a feeling we're going to double down or triple down on the "stupid". Zyph has a valid point... zero tolerance sucks, but if it's not there, the idiocy is all consuming. Until we can breed common sense into people, I'm afraid we're stuck.

Personally I dont see why airports are so sacrosanct. The fact is we simply cant AFFORD to search every train, bus, or anyone that goes into a mall...but we have decided we CAN search every person that gets on an airplane. Terrorists, being terrorists are Im sure just sitting back and deciding...well...dammit...I guess we are out of business now. OR they are just looking for other ways and means to cause harm.

They SHOULD continue to use the metal screeners and perfect the xray machines. Images of a nun or child being groped...err...sorry...I guess thats a sensitive word...being felt up are just evidence of how screwed up we have become about this.
 
When you get the notion where you say, all 95 year old people and people who are 6 will NOT be searched, then you open the door for terrorist cells to utilize people of this age group for their plans. It's not hard to understand. Even if there aren't international terrorists in their 90s, they can still force these people to do what they want, or use them to smuggle drugs. Old women especially have been used to smuggle drugs.
 
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When you get the notion where you say, all 95 year old people and people who are 6 will NOT be searched, then you open the door for terrorist cells to utilize people of this age group for their plans. It's not hard to understand. Even if there aren't international terrorists in their 90s, they can still force these people to do what they want, or use them to smuggle drugs. Old women especially have been used to smuggle drugs.

The latest target was times square with a bomb in a vehicle that fizzled out. So...do we search every vehicle at every venue where there might be a significant gathering? Why are we just limiting this to air travel?

Common sense has to come into play.
 
Don't think this will apply to Vance but to others perhaps...

I seem to remember an argument that "We can't set a time table for Iraq!!! If we set a Time Table then we're telling the terrorists what we're doing. Then they'll just bide their time and work off that, knowing if they can outlast us they win."

Somehow terrorists are smart enough to hear a time table and try and hold on until said time table is done, but we're to expect that they hear "X group of people will not be checked / checked as much" and will of course in no way try and utilize that.

Those two arguments don't seem to mesh.
 
You don't have to put out a press release stating that we will not check the diapers of 95 year old cancer patients. You just don't do it.
 
When you get the notion where you say, all 95 year old people and people who are 6 will NOT be searched, then you open the door for terrorist cells to utilize people of this age group for their plans. It's not hard to understand. Even if there aren't international terrorists in their 90s, they can still force these people to do what they want, or use them to smuggle drugs. Old women especially have been used to smuggle drugs.

There will always be something or someone who will not be searched... not all 6 years olds or 95 year old people are searched today either. Can you cite the drug smuggling item please?
 
There will always be something or someone who will not be searched... not all 6 years olds or 95 year old people are searched today either. Can you cite the drug smuggling item please?

Correct, however they're not specifically excluded. There's NO group of people that are ALL searched today.
 
Correct, however they're not specifically excluded. There's NO group of people that are ALL searched today.

So that means, terrorists who watch our media and observe the searches already know (and have known since 9/11) our vulnerabilities, yet they've still be largely unsuccessful in their attempts to blow themselves or others up in this country. Too bad we don't find these guys in the TSA line, but we DO hear about them when they lit their underwear fuse and it fizzled out when they already are on the plane. I guess I'd be more supportive of the TSA searches if they actually had a track record of stopping some really bad terrorists, or found the 95 year old mid-western grannie in a TSA line with her coin purse full of nitro planning on blowing up a 747.
 
Here is the sad reality...NONE of the security checks in-place today at airports would have stopped 9-11 from happening. The actions of the administration in investigations, intel, and better cooperation between those agencies COULD help and would have helped then. I GUARANTEE you I can smuggle dangerous weapons onto an airplane today. The terrorists that brought those planes down didnt use plastic explosives, they used fear, force, and a couple of crudely created razor blade weapons.

No one is suggesting that we stop security measures...just that we be intelligent and reasonable about it. The TSA and entire Homeland Security is treating this the same way they treat illegal immigration. Focus on things that have little to no impact...but LOOK how impressive we are.
 
Try to bring a dangerous weapon on board a plane... I'd like to see what happens to you.

No vance, you don't do that. But the point is - if you can save even one life by doing this, why do you have a problem with it? If going through a little inconviencne at the airport could save the life of an entire airplane, even if an attack will happen once a year, why do you have such an issue?

As for the old women, here's one article from a quick google search: Tag: old woman drug smuggling - Rynski's Blogski

I hear about it all the time from the IEAs who work near the borders though. They have these old women doing these things because they think no one will search them, like some of you would like.
 
Ok. I was fairly supportive of the TSA when all this nonsense started. I officially take back my support.

Patting down 6 yr old girls and 95 yr old cancer patients?

Really?

End the pat dows, use the xrays and new scanners on everyone, no choice given.

ends the 'he touched my junk' stuff.

An 8yo girl was used as a suicide bomber the other day. Yes, it's ugly, but if we don't pat down kids and old people the terrorists would take advantage of that weak spot. Nobody makes you fly, if you don't like it, don't fly. It's the world we live in now.

You righties would be the first ones bitching at Obama if a grandma snuck a bomb in under her diaper and blew a plane up.
 
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These are their procedures. The daughter even said herself in the interview I understand these are their procedures. Again, is this the best way to run airport security? No, it isn't. Israel's way of interviewing people and profiling (not racially profiling, but actually looking at people and saying, OK, this guy needs some extra screening, then talking to them, you can find a NY Daily News article where the guy, a white christian, says he gets put in the extra interview all the time) works great, but unfortunately that isn't applicable to the US, where thousands of flights go everyday. Israel has what? 50? This is the best solution we have in our current situation. You can all flip out and this will get its 15 minutes of fame tomorrow with all the "**** tsa man mah rights is violated kill tyrannical government" but in the end, this is how things are done.

Actually Israel does racial profile.
 
Try to bring a dangerous weapon on board a plane... I'd like to see what happens to you.

No vance, you don't do that. But the point is - if you can save even one life by doing this, why do you have a problem with it? If going through a little inconviencne at the airport could save the life of an entire airplane, even if an attack will happen once a year, why do you have such an issue?

As for the old women, here's one article from a quick google search: Tag: old woman drug smuggling - Rynski's Blogski

I hear about it all the time from the IEAs who work near the borders though. They have these old women doing these things because they think no one will search them, like some of you would like.

At least such a charge has credibility....
 
How about TSA hiring people with prior sex offenses?

ATLANTA -- Channel 2 Action News has learned a TSA security worker accused of abducting and sexually assaulting a woman had previously been convicted of misdemeanor harassment and stalking.
Randall King remains hospitalized following a suicide attempt. Police said last Wednesday, King agreed to drive a woman home from the airport. Instead, investigators said King took her to a MARTA station parking lot and placed novelty handcuffs on her.
TSA Worker Accused Of Assault Has Troubled Past
Investigators said he drove her 50 miles away to his home in Troup County and sexually assaulted her. The woman told police that King gave her a suicide note, his car and let her go, investigators said.
A spokesman for the Transportation Security Administration said privacy laws precluded him from releasing any background information on King.

TSA Worker Accused Of Assault Had Prior Record - News Story - WSB Atlanta

I feel safer already.

j-mac
 
Ok. I was fairly supportive of the TSA when all this nonsense started. I officially take back my support.

Patting down 6 yr old girls and 95 yr old cancer patients?

Really?

End the pat dows, use the xrays and new scanners on everyone, no choice given.

ends the 'he touched my junk' stuff.

I would rather they went to full body scans myself. But it doesn't matter. People will holler about invasions of privacy no matter what the TSA does. Well..almost...I'm sure if they just got disbanded and we had no security at airports people would be happy...until the next 9/11 anyways. Then they'd blame the government for failing to stop it. Complete with conspiracies about the government being in cahoots with the terrorists.
 
An 8yo girl was used as a suicide bomber the other day. Yes, it's ugly, but if we don't pat down kids and old people the terrorists would take advantage of that weak spot. Nobody makes you fly, if you don't like it, don't fly. It's the world we live in now.

You righties would be the first ones bitching at Obama if a grandma snuck a bomb in under her diaper and blew a plane up.

I don't know. They used a little kid somewhere else, so now we have to pat down little kids else the terrorists are going to take advantage of it? That doesn't sound really hysterical to you? It does to me.
 
What race do they profile against?

Any Arab that passes through thier checkpoints get greater scrutiny than a jewish person.

The multi-layer system begins outside Israel’s biggest port of entry — Ben Gurion airport. Cars approaching the terminal are stopped by guards and asked one or two questions, usually about where they are coming from or what is the purpose of their visit. A nervous response, or one revealing an Arab accent, could trigger further scrutiny even before entering the airport.
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This is also the point where profiling takes place: While most Jewish Israeli citizens will be waved through after the brief conversation, others, mainly Israeli Arabs and non-Jewish visitors, will be taken aside for lengthy questioning and a thorough luggage and physical check.
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An Israeli official aware of the security practices said that profiling is not based solely on ethnic, religious or national affiliation, but rather on a combination of factors that also include behavioral patterns, travel information and previous intelligence.

Bold parts show them racially profiling. The underlined part shows them admitting that they do.
 
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