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Thread: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

  1. #61
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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by Dix View Post
    You keep trying to expand this past Sweden to make your point.

    My point is that this school is an extreme reaction to a "problem" that they haven't convincingly argued exists in modern-day Sweden. It's based on faulty logic. Here's more of the story:
    Egalia is unusual even for Sweden. Staff try to shed masculine and feminine references from their speech, including the pronouns him or her — "han" or "hon" in Swedish. Instead, they've have adopted the genderless "hen," a word that doesn't exist in Swedish but is used in some feminist and gay circles.

    "We use the word "Hen" for example when a doctor, police, electrician or plumber or such is coming to the kindergarten," Rajalin says. "We don't know if it's a he or a she so we just say 'Hen is coming around 2 p.m.' Then the children can imagine both a man or a woman. This widens their view."

    The Associated Press: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Is Sweden really so socially backward that their children can't already imagine a male OR female being a doctor? I don't believe that it is. I just don't buy the reasons that they're trying to peddle for why it's necessary to go this extreme route. It makes sense that a country as progressive as Sweden would try it - but the irony is that a country like Sweden is one of the countries that is least likely to NEED it, iow. That is the point I'm trying to make.
    As far as I know gender roles in Sweden are not significantly different than here. They are not backward and neither are we. Still cultural influence on gender roles persists. Sweden is more progressive and is taking a more progressive approach. Gender roles are likely to diminish worldwide, though. There is simply no use for them anymore.

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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Not entirely true.
    Some gender roles are learned, while others are biological.
    QFT. If females were as pumped up with testosterone as men are, PMS would turn into monthly assault with a deadly weapon!

    Seriously, my objection here is also that they are experimenting with children, who cannot give informed consent. I'm all for schools... and parents... dumping traditional male, female, and gender neutral toys in the middle of the room and letting the kids choose what they want to play with themselves. Trying to remove all gender identity is, quite frankly, a really bad idea in my opinion.

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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by RStringfield View Post
    Artificial? What are you talking about dude? It is change. Just because you don't like it does not make it artificial.
    by artificial I mean "imposed from the top down..." not "I don't like it."


    Because???? It's different and you don't like it. That's about all you have offered.
    Why would I reiterate again here for you when I stated why when I started this conversation? Go back and read it.


    But that is what these people are doing. They are trying to avoid reinforcing those gender roles. This is not just about language.
    Not just, but the fact that they are excluding the use of gendered pronouns shows how screwed up the whole notion is. And as another poster has pointed out, society, especially in scandanavia is already moving in that direction, without the need for such measures.


    BS! Your profile says you live in Virginia. Describe gender roles in Virginia.
    what are you so uptight about? yes, I live in virginia, and lots of women like watching football and men are certainly expected to take baths. Nobody has a fit over either one, and they are in no way abnormal or out of the ordinary, regardless of one's genetalia or gender role.

    Now, if I were to go around refusing to say "he," "she," "his," or "hers" because it supposedly reinforces gender roles, everyone would rightly believe that I had lost my mind.
    Last edited by other; 06-26-11 at 11:02 PM.

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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Yea it's stupid gender experimentation on children.
    As if it is wrong for there to be differences between genders.

    This is one part of the extreme liberal belief system that I hate.
    (Not inditing all liberals here.)
    I'm fine with how they do it in Battlestar Galactica. Just call all the female officers "sir."
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    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I'm fine with how they do it in Battlestar Galactica. Just call all the female officers "sir."
    Why sir?

    Why not call all the officers, male and female, ma'am?

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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Gender is biological. Gender roles are learned.

    Hmmm??

    So, let's try this one on for size shall we. Consider for a moment that homosexuality is biological, but homosexual behavior is learned. Would you be in favor of taking away all the "role-models" that would otherwise teach homosexuality to those budding homosexuals on how to be good homosexuals?


    Oops...


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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias - Yahoo! News

    Gender Bias?

    I'm about as pro-trans rights, as they come around here, but this... is just ****ing mental this is.
    do they have unisex/coed bathrooms?
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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    Next they'll start refering to each child as "it," shave all their heads and put them in identical gender-neutral pant-suits.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Yea it's stupid gender experimentation on children.
    As if it is wrong for there to be differences between genders.

    This is one part of the extreme liberal belief system that I hate.
    (Not inditing all liberals here.)
    really? kids are going to turn out however they will turn out, and i don't think providing them with a gender-neutral environment will change that. no one said it's wrong for there to be differences, but it is a problem when people expect say, boys to be loud and obnoxious and girls to sit quietly, based solely on gender. and it happens far too frequently.......girls are rewared for being nice, polite, little zombies, and boys, well, "boys will be boys".

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    really? kids are going to turn out however they will turn out, and i don't think providing them with a gender-neutral environment will change that. no one said it's wrong for there to be differences, but it is a problem when people expect say, boys to be loud and obnoxious and girls to sit quietly, based solely on gender. and it happens far too frequently.......girls are rewared for being nice, polite, little zombies, and boys, well, "boys will be boys".
    Girls only become loud and obnoxious later in life, after they're married.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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