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Thread: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

  1. #11
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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Gender is biological. Gender roles are learned.
    Not entirely true.
    Some gender roles are learned, while others are biological.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    It's just silly because people don't CHOOSE what gender they are.

    You can't just up and one decide decide to be male - or female . . . so much for teachers being smart, hunh?

    Where things become issues is when parents/teachers (etc) discourage play and fun activities based on gender roles . . . but you don't have to *not* call a girl a 'girl' in order to do this - you can simply let the boys play with the dolls and girls play with the trucks.
    It's like them inadvertently saying that people with GID can change, which isn't true.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    I doubt it will work the way they expect. Language is a powerful thing and proliferates independently regardless of top-down impositions. Even if the distinction between male and female is suppressed by an authority figure it is such a clear biological distinction that language will always be able to accomodate the difference between the two sexes. Every known language does, and that's not going to change unless the biological reality does.

    Hell, the human drive to categorize and assign gender even applies to sexless inanimate objects in many languages.
    Last edited by other; 06-26-11 at 03:46 PM.

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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Public and private schools have been experimenting, trying out theories and new educational methods on kids since the dawn of mandatory education. I fail to see how this is any better or worse than what's been done already.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Every effort to improve the educational experience is ultimately an experiment on the children involved.

    Parenting is an experiment on the children involved -- because no matter all the advice you get from a trusted source, or all the books you read by reputable authors, most of the day-to-day stuff comes down to trial-and-error. In other words, experimentation.

    Aside from that, trying to socially engineer these kids with respect to gender roles is no different than schools that teach kids to believe in God. In both cases, the educators are using their positions as authority figures and the fact that the kids constitute a captive audience to instill their beliefs in the young minds entrusted to them.

    This kind of angle gets sensationalized only because America is a nation of people who by and large are, at heart, puritans.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Public and private schools have been experimenting, trying out theories and new educational methods on kids since the dawn of mandatory education. I fail to see how this is any better or worse than what's been done already.
    This isn't about educating kids though.
    It's imparting a social identity theory with no basis in fact.

    It would be like forcing kids with GID to behave exactly like their seen gender and not their felt gender.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Not entirely true.
    Some gender roles are learned, while others are biological.
    What Redress was saying is that gender roles are entirely learned. Gender is not.

    Most people will identify with the gender of their sex, no matter what their upbringing. Most people with a penis will say "I am a man." Even in the earlier part of the 20th century when *gasp!* boys wore dresses until they were 6 or 7.

    But the gender roles - the colors and toys and activities associated with that gender - are mostly learned. In some countries being a woman means having a foot-long neck. And that is just as arbitrary as the belief here that being a woman means wearing make-up.

    Gender roles having nothing to do with innate gender. It's just a set of delineating qualities we arbitrarily assign. Not having a distinct gender role does not confuse ones internal gender.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 06-26-11 at 04:07 PM.

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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    This isn't about educating kids though.
    It's imparting a social identity theory with no basis in fact.

    It would be like forcing kids with GID to behave exactly like their seen gender and not their felt gender.
    It's a preschool. A preschool's main objective is to socialize kids, teach them to function in a group. This is an educational tool like any other at that young age and in that particular setting.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias - Yahoo! News

    Gender Bias?

    I'm about as pro-trans rights, as they come around here, but this... is just ****ing mental this is.
    Why is it mental? Do you honeslty bleieve that gender identity is completely biological and is not impacted by culture? That's plainly stupid.

    I think, it should serve as an interesting study, will not do any harm to the children and would defer to the discretion of the parents.

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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    What Redress was saying is that gender roles are entirely learned. Gender is not.
    That's just not true.
    Some gender roles are entirely evolutionary.

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    Most people will identify with the gender of their sex, no matter what their upbringing. Most people with a penis will say "I am a man." Even in the earlier part of the 20th century when *gasp!* boys wore dresses until they were 6 or 7.

    But the gender roles - the colors and toys and activities associated with that gender - are mostly learned. In some countries being a woman means having a foot-long neck. And that is just as arbitrary as the belief here that being a woman means wearing make-up.

    Gender roles having nothing to do with innate gender. It's just a set of diliniating qualities we arbitrarily assign. Not having a distinct gender role does not confuse ones internal gender.
    One of the early ways to associate an internal gender is to express it through outward gender behaviors, from role models.
    Felt (internal) gender and expressed (external) gender are linked, not separate.

    This stuff is not arbitrary, it is a part of identity development.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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