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Thread: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

  1. #131
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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post
    Gender roles have evolved as they have over the last million or so years for a reason, one that has everything to do with nature and evolution.
    Impossible to effectively argue otherwise.
    It is not impossible to argue at all. In fact your assertion is plainly stupid. There is absolutely NO DOUBT that different legal statuses of males and females have had a bigger impact on gender roles than fitness for survival has.

    Cite.
    Gender role - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Check any of the sources at the bottom. Find me one that says that gender roles are explained without culture. There are none. It is up to you to provide citation for your absurd claim.


    This evolution was in place long before there was any concept of 'legal recognition'.
    That is not a description of something that has developed due to evolution but of something that has stopped evolving. It stopped evolving due to men using gender roles and discrimination to keep women from gaining full legal recognition. But they have legal recognition now and our gender roles need to evolve to the new realities.


    They do it to attract a better mate, so their offspring may have a better chance at survival to the point where they too have offspring.
    That has everything to do with nature and evolution.
    ::eyeroll::

    That is fing stupid! Neither survival nor evolution determine nor communicate how a woman should paint her face. That is deteremined by cultural norms alone which is why such customs very greatly from place to place and across time. Women conform (there may be a survival advantage in conformity) to that due to influence of social norms. These social norms are not natural or organic they just are. They can and maybe should be changed.

    if you are going to insist on keeping your head firmly lodged in your ass, then there is really not much point here. Your argument is stupid and not supported by science.

  2. #132
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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    that was my point. if you are going to deny that gender differences exist, then everyone should use the same bathroom. but the biggest proponents of crap like this are the first ones that would piss themselves if you suggested that little boys and little girls use the same bathroom.
    And so you have no point. NOBODY is arguing that the differences between gender do not exist.

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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by RStringfield View Post
    It is not impossible to argue at all. In fact your assertion is plainly stupid. There is absolutely NO DOUBT that different legal statuses of males and females have had a bigger impact on gender roles than fitness for survival has.
    There is doubt, especially given that the concept of 'different legal status' has only existed for the last 5000 years or so.

    Gender role - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Check any of the sources at the bottom.
    Sooooo.. you cannot provide a source and illustrate how that source supports your assertion. Thank you.

    That is not a description of something that has developed due to evolution...
    Absolutely it is. :duh:
    The fact that these roles were in place long before the concept of legal recognition ever existed destroys youe argument in its entirety.
    Gender roles predate 'legal recignition' by hundreds of thousands of years; their basis has everything to do with the nature of men and women themselves.

    That is fing stupid! Neither survival nor evolution determine nor communicate how a woman should paint her face.
    The fact that women paint their face differently in different places only means that the women understand the likes of their potential mates.
    The impetus behind painting the face remains as described.

    You clearly do not understand the issue at hand. Given that, you just as clearly cannot have an effective conversation regarding same. Your argument is based on a false premise and therefore cannot do anything other than fail.

  4. #134
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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post
    There is doubt, especially given that the concept of 'different legal status' has only existed for the last 5000 years or so.
    You are making no sense. Only the last 5000 years? That ONLY is all of recorded history. But you need more? Where the hell do you expect to get it?


    Sooooo.. you cannot provide a source and illustrate how that source supports your assertion. Thank you.

    Sooo I provide several sources and you are ignoring them. You are making an extraordinary claim, one that is unheard of and it is up to you to provide proof of it.

    Absolutely it is. :duh:
    The fact that these roles were in place long before the concept of legal recognition ever existed destroys youe argument in its entirety.
    Gender roles predate 'legal recignition' by hundreds of thousands of years; their basis has everything to do with the nature of men and women themselves.
    Evolution did not stop once we wrote laws and it's utility did not vanish. It is absurd to believe that current gender roles are COMPLETELY a function of evolutionary advantages expressing themselves and not due to culture which includes legal traditions. If gender roles were determined solely by evolution then they would be almost identical across culture. They are not.

    The fact that women paint their face differently in different places only means that the women understand the likes of their potential mates.
    The impetus behind painting the face remains as described.
    You have to be kidding? In some cultures no makeup. In some places they put plates in their lips. In some places they bind the feet in order to force them to develop crippling deformities. Some women cinch their waist until it is altered. These behaviors are not evolution nor are they done for survival. These behaviors are primarily influenced by culture.

    The fact that you are even arguing this is just totally bizarre.

    You clearly do not understand the issue at hand. Given that, you just as clearly cannot have an effective conversation regarding same. Your argument is based on a false premise and therefore cannot do anything other than fail.
    My argument is based on the SANE premise that culture has an influence on gender identity. Yours is based on some pointless attempt to deny what is widely known and recognized. Your argument is absurd.

  5. #135
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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Do you have an example or two?
    here's a fun example: we are having an office pitch-in next week. the men (except the gay ones) signed up for drinks, napkins, etc. the women are expected to cover the real food. insignificant, but to me, very telling.

    another one......why are childless by choice married women looked at with a skeptical eye? of course, this is not so much for the younger generation, but even my daughter (29), who has chosen not to have children, gets questioned.

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    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by RStringfield View Post
    And so you have no point. NOBODY is arguing that the differences between gender do not exist.
    oh, that's right, they are arguing we should "pretend" that the differences don't exist. my bad
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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    I like the idea of making sure toys are designated a girl or boy but not using he or she seems extreme. I bet they are wasting their time. The kids will come in with their own bias anyway.
    This is why you should proofread people. I meant, "I like the idea of making sure toys are NOT designated for a girl or boy"
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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by RStringfield View Post
    You are making no sense. Only the last 5000 years? That ONLY is all of recorded history. But you need more? Where the hell do you expect to get it?





    Sooo I provide several sources and you are ignoring them. You are making an extraordinary claim, one that is unheard of and it is up to you to provide proof of it.



    Evolution did not stop once we wrote laws and it's utility did not vanish. It is absurd to believe that current gender roles are COMPLETELY a function of evolutionary advantages expressing themselves and not due to culture which includes legal traditions. If gender roles were determined solely by evolution then they would be almost identical across culture. They are not.



    You have to be kidding? In some cultures no makeup. In some places they put plates in their lips. In some places they bind the feet in order to force them to develop crippling deformities. Some women cinch their waist until it is altered. These behaviors are not evolution nor are they done for survival. These behaviors are primarily influenced by culture.

    The fact that you are even arguing this is just totally bizarre.



    My argument is based on the SANE premise that culture has an influence on gender identity. Yours is based on some pointless attempt to deny what is widely known and recognized. Your argument is absurd.
    As I said:
    Your argument is based on a false premise and therefore cannot do anything other than fail.
    Nothing you have posted here does anything to change that.

  9. #139
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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    oh, that's right, they are arguing we should "pretend" that the differences don't exist. my bad
    No they are arguing that we should not emphasize differences that don't seem to be based on gender alone. You have a penis that makes you male. Whether you wear pants or a dress does not make you male. Whether you are referred to as him, her or friends does not make you a male.

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    Re: No 'him' or 'her'; preschool fights gender bias

    Quote Originally Posted by RStringfield View Post
    You have a penis that makes you male. .

    and many would argue that point. they would say that just because you have a penis, doesn't mean you are male....unless you "feel" male.

    remember the "pregnant man" sensation from a few years back? the "man" that turned out to have a fully functioning vagina, uterus and ovaries?
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