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Thread: New York to Become the Sixth State to Legalize Gay Marriage

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    Re: New York to Become the Sixth State to Legalize Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Why do I have this insane idea that the right to SSM is more of a natural right than owning a weapon?
    Because, as a liberal, you fear people who can do acts of violence.

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    Re: New York to Become the Sixth State to Legalize Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    people have a natural right to have a loving & committed relationship with anyone they like.

    they do not, however, have a "right" to get married. Marriage is a purely human and cultural construct.

    nor is owning a Glock...a natural right.
    In that way, being claimed as family on an insurance policy is not a 'natural right'.

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    Re: New York to Become the Sixth State to Legalize Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    No, its not a right. Its a choice.

    Rights do not exist unless society decides to recognize them.
    Nonsense. One cannot create rights, one can merely respect rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    In the jungle, by the laws of the jungle, rights do NOT exist. Even the Bible fails to list any "rights". It only says what you must do, what you cannot do, and what makes God angry.
    The Cat in the Hat doesn't list any fundamental human rights, either. Thankfully, human rights are not dependent on either of these works of fiction.
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    Re: New York to Become the Sixth State to Legalize Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    Question: why should religious instititions and religious affiliatted groups and non-profits, be able to discriminate against gays, but not everybody else?
    Their ability to do so is specifically protected by the Constitution.

    No one els's is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    what if a regular band doesn't want to play at a gay-wedding?
    The right to refuse service is based upon a prohibition against forced labor; a different topic entirely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    what if a regular wedding hall doesn't want to host a gay wedding?
    Property rights secure the owner's ability to control who is allowed or banned from their land and buildings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    what if a private employer doesn't want to give pension and other beneficiary rights to gay couples?
    Unlike the prohibition on forced-labor/slavery, and unlike private property rights, employment regards commerce and as such is subject to state regulation on commerce.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    why should religious groups have the right to live by their moral views, but not other folks?
    Their ability to do so is specifically protected by the Constitution.

    No one els's is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    (devil's advocate asks: should a wedding hall be allowed to refuse to serve an inter-racial wedding? hmmmm.....this is gonna bring up some serious issues of freedom of speech and association)
    Of course.

    A wedding hall can even choose to only allow SSMs if they chose. Also, I'll bet we'll see a couple same-sex couples only drive through chapels spring up in Nevada.
    Last edited by Jerry; 06-25-11 at 10:50 PM.

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    Re: New York to Become the Sixth State to Legalize Gay Marriage

    I do predict that the religious exemption will be tested soon enough.


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    Re: New York to Become the Sixth State to Legalize Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    yawn.............
    Yup, you have seen that you have been beaten, so you resort to this^.

    Thanx for playing.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: New York to Become the Sixth State to Legalize Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    Nonsense. One cannot create rights, one can merely respect rights.
    that's great.

    someone can yell & scream all they like about this right and that right, but unless society recognizes such a right, its meaningless.

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    Re: New York to Become the Sixth State to Legalize Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    I agree but this becomes semantics. the 44 states that do not allow gay marriage is argued to be a violation of rights, which I largely agree is a loss of rights. but based on your semantic definition, it isn't.
    this is a fact. at the present time, the majority of American states do NOT recognize or acknowledge the right of gay folks to get married.

    NY has chosen to recognize such a right, while NJ has not.

    Do I believe that NJ is therefore violating the rights of gay people? No, I do not. However, I would not shed a tear of tomorrow NJ decides to recognize this right.

    Like I said, rights only exist when a society decides to recognize them.

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    Re: New York to Become the Sixth State to Legalize Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Unless your really old it's gonna happen in your lifetime. I'd say within this decade.
    lol, two things: First, I am really old. Second, it won't happen as long as there is a 5-4 conservative majority on SCOTUS.

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    Re: New York to Become the Sixth State to Legalize Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    that's great.

    someone can yell & scream all they like about this right and that right, but unless society recognizes such a right, its meaningless.
    It's not meaningless, it just doesn't necessarily change anything. Russians or the Chinese aren't less entitled, Westerners don't have a special monopoly on civil rights, they just, unfortunately, like in oppressive police states that systematically violate these rights. The only way to, quite rightfully, condemn these regimes is to acknowledge this, and, by so doing, that rights exist outside the law, which can respect them, or not. For an example; Murder isn't wrong simply because it's illegal, it's fundamentally wrong, therefore, it is often legally prohibited.
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    All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume. -Noam Chomsky

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