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Thread: Dutch populist Geert Wilders acquitted of hate speech

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    Re: Dutch populist Geert Wilders acquitted of hate speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoop View Post
    I thanked you mainly for that last sentence, which I feel is important to keep in mind. Unfortunately, I have to admit we also see a rise in violence against muslims and mosques the last few years.
    I haven't heard much of that, Djoop. Most of the violence appears to be coming from one direction.

    Governments don't help at all when they separate groups into categories and fail to apply laws equally. In fact they often create and contribute to the problems rather than solving them. Few politicians think long term.

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    Re: Dutch populist Geert Wilders acquitted of hate speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I haven't heard much of that, Djoop. Most of the violence appears to be coming from one direction.
    Recently I read this report counting over 100 (reported) incidents in the last 2 years, and that's only in NL. No one got killed though, contrary to the other side.

    Governments don't help at all when they separate groups into categories and fail to apply laws equally. In fact they often create and contribute to the problems rather than solving them. Few politicians think long term.
    Agreed.

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    Re: Dutch populist Geert Wilders acquitted of hate speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoop View Post
    Recently I read this report counting over 100 (reported) incidents in the last 2 years, and that's only in NL. No one got killed though, contrary to the other side.

    Agreed.
    Don't want to overly trouble you, DJoop, but what form did most of these incidents take? Were they verbal? Damaging mosques? Physical violence?

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    Re: Dutch populist Geert Wilders acquitted of hate speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    The problem here isn't in the law, but in the one sided nature with which the law is applied. The European courts would be absolutely tied up with cases if Muslims were held to the same standard regarding hate speech as are native Europeans.

    The double standards are glaring.
    You are joking, right? How many radical Muslim hate preachers have been arrested already? It seems to me it was at least one every month.

    As I see it, there is a double standard against Muslims. Bashing Muslims and holding them all responsible for the deeds of a few among them, in a generalizing broad-brush manner, has become mainstream. Islamophobia and blatant anti-Muslim hatred are the new anti-Semitism. In many countries, it has become perfectly acceptable. Polls show numbers between 30% and 50% of the native populations are bigoted Muslim-haters. Muslims are target of racial profiling and general suspicion in the "war on terror". And that's not even mentioning every day racism. If the same discrimination was common against Jews, people would rub their eyes, but for some reason, it's perfectly acceptable when Muslims are the target.

    For the record, that doesn't mean, of course, there are no problems with Muslim extremists, or backwards attitudes among Muslim immigrants. Of course there are. I just don't believe that broad-brush condemnations, incitement and discrimination are a constructive way of dealing with these problems.

    As I see it, the problem with extremist islamism is minor, ridiculously minor compared to the problem of native xenophobia and anti-Muslim bigotry. Hell, Muslims haven't even founded a party in any Western country, which demands the introduction of Sharia, or anything of that kind -- while xenophobic anti-Muslim hate preachers win up to 20% in elections.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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    Re: Dutch populist Geert Wilders acquitted of hate speech

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    You are joking, right? How many radical Muslim hate preachers have been arrested already? It seems to me it was at least one every month.

    As I see it, there is a double standard against Muslims. Bashing Muslims and holding them all responsible for the deeds of a few among them, in a generalizing broad-brush manner, has become mainstream. Islamophobia and blatant anti-Muslim hatred are the new anti-Semitism. In many countries, it has become perfectly acceptable. Polls show numbers between 30% and 50% of the native populations are bigoted Muslim-haters. Muslims are target of racial profiling and general suspicion in the "war on terror". And that's not even mentioning every day racism. If the same discrimination was common against Jews, people would rub their eyes, but for some reason, it's perfectly acceptable when Muslims are the target.

    For the record, that doesn't mean, of course, there are no problems with Muslim extremists, or backwards attitudes among Muslim immigrants. Of course there are. I just don't believe that broad-brush condemnations, incitement and discrimination are a constructive way of dealing with these problems.

    As I see it, the problem with extremist islamism is minor, ridiculously minor compared to the problem of native xenophobia and anti-Muslim bigotry. Hell, Muslims haven't even founded a party in any Western country, which demands the introduction of Sharia, or anything of that kind -- while xenophobic anti-Muslim hate preachers win up to 20% in elections.
    How ironic that you would bring up antisemitism, considering that Muslims are such practitioners of such. Reliable polls indicate antisemitic attitues approaching near universal status in many Muslim countries.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Dutch populist Geert Wilders acquitted of hate speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Don't want to overly trouble you, DJoop, but what form did most of these incidents take? Were they verbal? Damaging mosques? Physical violence?
    Most are verbal threats, beatings and mosque damagings. But they also stopped quite a few idiots who tried to set a mosque on fire. I'll try to find the report...

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    Re: Dutch populist Geert Wilders acquitted of hate speech

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    The fact they would even have laws against "hate speech" and hold a trial for "hate speech" is not a score one for free speech.
    Why do I feel as though America is slowly yet surely "progressing" to that point?

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    Re: Dutch populist Geert Wilders acquitted of hate speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Why do I feel as though America is slowly yet surely "progressing" to that point?
    Perhaps it's because you are reading a lot of nonsense.

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    Re: Dutch populist Geert Wilders acquitted of hate speech

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    You are joking, right? How many radical Muslim hate preachers have been arrested already? It seems to me it was at least one every month.
    If they are arresting one a month it shows that there is a real problem in the Islamic community. And what about the victims of these preachers who are sitting in the mosques and believing the hate they're spewing? That could have long term negative consequences also.

    As I see it, there is a double standard against Muslims. Bashing Muslims and holding them all responsible for the deeds of a few among them, in a generalizing broad-brush manner, has become mainstream. Islamophobia and blatant anti-Muslim hatred are the new antiSemitism. In -many countries, it has become perfectly acceptable. Polls show numbers between 30% and 50% of the native populations are bigoted Muslim-haters. Muslims are target of racial profiling and general suspicion in the "war on terror". And that's not even mentioning every day racism. If the same discrimination was common against Jews, people would rub their eyes, but for some reason, it's perfectly acceptable when Muslims are the target.
    So you think the west is showing anything comparable to this?
    YouTube - ‪"Kill The Jews!" Muslim Children Memorize and Recite Antisemitic Messages on Egyptian TV Channel‬‏

    Or this?

    YouTube - ‪Hamas: In Their Own Voices - Death to Jews / America‬‏

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    Re: Dutch populist Geert Wilders acquitted of hate speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Perhaps it's because you are reading a lot of nonsense.
    Perhaps.

    Perhaps not.

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