• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Key republican bolts from debt ceiling talks

G

Gargantuan

Debt ceiling: Key Republican bolts debt ceiling talks - Jun. 23, 2011

Vice President Joe Biden were thrown into question Thursday when a key Republican lawmaker pulled out of the talks.

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor said in a statement the group had made progress in identifying "trillions" in spending cuts, but that Democrats "continue to insist that any deal must include tax increases."

I'm sorry but this is absolutely ridiculous. Democrats control the senate and the White House. That's 2/3. You guys control 1. We already have agreed to cutting medicare and other entitlements, and you won't even give us tax increases in the form of cutting loopholes and subsidies? Is the GOP kidding?
 
Tax increases don't cut loopholes and subsidies.

Try again.
 
Tax increases don't cut loopholes and subsidies.

Try again.

Yes they do. The discussion is regarding revenue increases. Subsidies and loopholes lower revenue. Cutting them will raise revenue.

Try again.
 
Yes they do. The discussion is regarding revenue increases. Subsidies and loopholes lower revenue. Cutting them will raise revenue.

Try again.

Okay, then cut subsidies and loopholes.

Don't raise taxes.

I don't know why anyone would want to raise taxes especially considering we are hovering on a double dip recession. These FDR policies are going to keep us in a muck for a while.
 
Okay, then cut subsidies and loopholes.

Don't raise taxes.

I don't know why anyone would want to raise taxes especially considering we are hovering on a double dip recession. These FDR policies are going to keep us in a muck for a while.

But that's the thing. Your GOP won't agree to cutting subsidies and loopholes. That is the discussion here. Raising taxes = raising revenue. Cutting these things will raise revenue. Eric Canter is a partisan hack who will not even agree to take a hit. We democrats are agreeing to cutting from our base, the lower middle class and middle class. The republicans won't agree to cutting subsidies and loopholes from theirs, even though they even control one part of the process (house)
 
But that's the thing. Your GOP won't agree to cutting subsidies and loopholes. That is the discussion here. Raising taxes = raising revenue. Cutting these things will raise revenue. Eric Canter is a partisan hack who will not even agree to take a hit. We democrats are agreeing to cutting from our base, the lower middle class and middle class. The republicans won't agree to cutting subsidies and loopholes from theirs, even though they even control one part of the process (house)

I agree and im a republican...they refuse to cut the billions in subsidies that corporations recieve and instead want tax cuts for only the richest americans and corporations....subsidize them and give them tax cuts....whats wrong with this picture
 
Debt ceiling: Key Republican bolts debt ceiling talks - Jun. 23, 2011



I'm sorry but this is absolutely ridiculous. Democrats control the senate and the White House. That's 2/3. You guys control 1. We already have agreed to cutting medicare and other entitlements, and you won't even give us tax increases in the form of cutting loopholes and subsidies? Is the GOP kidding?


Psst...hey, guess what? We don't actually want the debt ceiling raised! At all!

Or at least, I don't.
 
But that's the thing. Your GOP won't agree to cutting subsidies and loopholes. That is the discussion here. Raising taxes = raising revenue. Cutting these things will raise revenue. Eric Canter is a partisan hack who will not even agree to take a hit. We democrats are agreeing to cutting from our base, the lower middle class and middle class. The republicans won't agree to cutting subsidies and loopholes from theirs, even though they even control one part of the process (house)

They won't cut loopholes and subsidies?

The argument is over raising taxes.
 
They won't cut loopholes and subsidies?

The argument is over raising taxes.

When Democrats close loopholes, Republicans call it raising taxes.

I'm fairly certain the reverse is also true.
 
Both Eric Cantor and Jon Kyl have walked away from talks. This is almost certainly a negotiating tactic aimed at forcing the President to resolve the tax issue and perhaps to open the Boehner-Obama talks that Republicans have been seeking for some time. More than likely, no matter how the process is altered, this impasse is a first step toward what will be a more modest debt ceiling increase-fiscal consolidation program than the $2.4 trillion debt ceiling hike the White House has been seeking.

For Republicans, revenue raising measures (be it through subsidy, deduction, preferences, credits reductions or tax rate increases) is off limits. For Democrats, some degree of revenue raising measures is key to their agreement on significant mandatory spending reductions. More than likely, this potentially irreconcilable gap will be resolved not through compromise, but through an approach that involves smaller savings (largely insulating the mandatory spending programs this time around) and for which revenue increases are not needed to secure the savings. In short, the stage is being set for another fiscal punt. Such a compromise will ultimately be needed for credible fiscal consolidation. It probably won't occur until at least after the 2012 elections, at the earliest.
 
Psst...hey, guess what? We don't actually want the debt ceiling raised! At all!

Or at least, I don't.

Hey, guess what... in order to implement to Republicans' budget proposal, the debt ceiling would have to be raised.
 
Hey, guess what... in order to implement to Republicans' budget proposal, the debt ceiling would have to be raised.

Not if there's no compromise whatsoever ;)
 
Yes there is. Mr. Fiscally Responsible Paul Ryan's plan calls for gigantic increases in borrowing to pay for tax cuts on the wealthy.
 
Yes there is. Mr. Fiscally Responsible Paul Ryan's plan calls for gigantic increases in borrowing to pay for tax cuts on the wealthy.

And the Democrats plan is to keep spending and hope stealing more money from a small precentage of tax payers will make everything better.
 
Yes there is. Mr. Fiscally Responsible Paul Ryan's plan calls for gigantic increases in borrowing to pay for tax cuts on the wealthy.

Tax cuts pay for themselves
 
Tax cuts pay for themselves

Only over long periods of time(note: capital gains taxes exempted from this, due to first year increases in cashing in capital gains type holdings, and then it gets complicated). Eventually, tax cuts usually pay for themselves, but it is my understanding you are looking at 25 + year time frames.
 
Only over long periods of time(note: capital gains taxes exempted from this, due to first year increases in cashing in capital gains type holdings, and then it gets complicated). Eventually, tax cuts usually pay for themselves, but it is my understanding you are looking at 25 + year time frames.

This is why you fail.

Reagan, tax cuts produced immediate tax revenue gains, so did the JFK and GWB Tax Cuts.

But, don't let that stop you, keep saying tax cuts take 25 years to pay for themselves!
 
This is why you fail.

Reagan, tax cuts produced immediate tax revenue gains, so did the JFK and GWB Tax Cuts.

But, don't let that stop you, keep saying tax cuts take 25 years to pay for themselves!

You can prove this? Note importantly that proving revenue gains does not in fact prove your point, since the system is fairly complex and you are not isolating a variable.
 
Okay, then cut subsidies and loopholes.

Don't raise taxes.

I don't know why anyone would want to raise taxes especially considering we are hovering on a double dip recession. These FDR policies are going to keep us in a muck for a while.

If only your fellow GOPer were this normal.. to them any cutting of subsides and loopholes = Tax increase... they have said so many times.
 
But we're not talking about tax cuts here. We are not talking about raising taxes on certain income brackets. We are talking about killing subsidies that allowed corporations to pay NOTHING IN TAXES AND GET CREDITS last year. GE paid nothing in taxes but got a tax credit in the hundred millions. Is that right? Absolutely not, but your GOP friends think it's ok. We are talking about loopholes allowing 47% of Americans to pay NOTHING in taxes.
 
But we're not talking about tax cuts here. We are not talking about raising taxes on certain income brackets. We are talking about killing subsidies that allowed corporations to pay NOTHING IN TAXES AND GET CREDITS last year. GE paid nothing in taxes but got a tax credit in the hundred millions. Is that right? Absolutely not, but your GOP friends think it's ok. We are talking about loopholes allowing 47% of Americans to pay NOTHING in taxes.

From what I'd heard, the reason GE paid no taxes last year was because they wrote off huge losses from years prior.
 
You can prove this? Note importantly that proving revenue gains does not in fact prove your point, since the system is fairly complex and you are not isolating a variable.

Conclusion

The Reagan tax cuts, like similar measures enacted in the 1920s and 1960s, showed that reducing excessive tax rates stimulates growth, reduces tax avoidance, and can increase the amount and share of tax payments generated by the rich. High top tax rates can induce counterproductive behavior and suppress revenues, factors that are usually missed or understated in government static revenue analysis. Furthermore, the key assumption of static revenue analysis that economic growth is not affected by tax changes is di sproved by the experience of previous tax reduction programs. There is little reason to expect static revenue analysis to evaluate the economic or distributional effects of current tax reform proposals much better than it evaluated the Reagan tax program 15 years ago.

Christopher Frenze
Chief Economist to the Vice-Chairman
The Reagan Tax Cuts: Lessons for Tax Reform
 
But we're not talking about tax cuts here. We are not talking about raising taxes on certain income brackets. We are talking about killing subsidies that allowed corporations to pay NOTHING IN TAXES AND GET CREDITS last year. GE paid nothing in taxes but got a tax credit in the hundred millions. Is that right? Absolutely not, but your GOP friends think it's ok. We are talking about loopholes allowing 47% of Americans to pay NOTHING in taxes.

GE got the hook up cause the company is run by folks in bed with Obama...
 
Back
Top Bottom