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Thread: Key republican bolts from debt ceiling talks

  1. #51
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    Re: Key republican bolts from debt ceiling talks

    Quote Originally Posted by greatar4 View Post
    My problem with the Republican is they are far more interested in getting their ideas across. They want to cut spending by a substantial amount of money which may be very unpopular with the Democrats, but they are not going to compromise as far as the wealthy tax cut is concerned.
    That's right. There's no doubt the highest tax bracket should go back up, but that's not even the point of this discussion. They won't agree to cut subsidies or loopholes.

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    Re: Key republican bolts from debt ceiling talks

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Will taxing industry reduce unemployment?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gargantuan View Post
    It's not taxing industry. It's getting rid of subsidies and loopholes, which are something that a real fiscal conservative would be opposed to - because in reality that's picking winners and losers. Subsidize one corporation but let the other out in the dust - leave them all to do what they need to do without government aid, and without getting gigantic tax receipts from Uncle Sam and not paying anything.
    Eliminating a tax subsidy isn't raising taxes. Think of it like this...

    You have the Earned Income Tax Credit and the Child Tax Credit. In both cases, only those taxpayers who have dependent children who pay a certain percentage of their income to someone else to help provide care for that child (or children; i.e., "daycare") earn the credit. If you don't have qualified children, you can't claim the credit. Tax subsidies work almost the same way except they apply to business expenditures that under the tax code can be applied to your business' federal tax return, i.e., health care premiums paid by your employer. Such an expense is refunded under tax law, but it's not an increase in the marginal tax rate. It's just an expense that isn't counted as taxable income. Therefore, if the subsidy is eliminated, those formerly non-taxed earnings that would have otherwise been written off in a tax haven, i.e., insurance premiums paid, are instead counted as income where they've always been except now you can't claim the tax write-off.

    Will it move said business into a higher tax bracket? Yes, because the business won't be able to claim the tax write-off any longer. Thus, their "real" earnings will have to be properly reported without the adjustment to gross income.

    Have your taxes been raised? No, because the marginal tax rate you would have been paying had you not claimed the subsidy remains at the exact same level.

    Is it a new tax? No.

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    Re: Key republican bolts from debt ceiling talks


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    Re: Key republican bolts from debt ceiling talks

    Not willing to compromise, i.e. actually cut subsides while not touching the marginal rate that the repubs are calling "tax hikes" is going to bite them in the ass. Dems have compromised already, they gave up spending 2tillion for 10years.
    Hayek - too liberal for republicans

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    Re: Key republican bolts from debt ceiling talks

    Exactly... democrats have taken a gigantic hit in this, and we control more of the government than they do, and they won't take anything. It's laughable.

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    Re: Key republican bolts from debt ceiling talks

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    Psst...hey, guess what? We don't actually want the debt ceiling raised! At all!

    Or at least, I don't.
    Then you want us to default on debt, sell off the national parks, cut 1000s of jobs, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfoot 88 View Post
    Okay, then cut subsidies and loopholes.

    Don't raise taxes.

    I don't know why anyone would want to raise taxes especially considering we are hovering on a double dip recession. These FDR policies are going to keep us in a muck for a while.
    This raises the amount of taxes paid which is in essence a tax increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfoot 88 View Post
    Tax cuts pay for themselves
    1) The laffer curve is 90% 9made up state) bull****. There is a point where taxes become counterproductive; however, America as a whole has never been at that point
    2) If the Laffer curve is true, even to a certain extent, than so is its inverse meaning that without a certain amount of revenue, even basic government services become useless.
    3) Cain is corporatist, he'd raise the debt ceiling.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    This is why you fail.

    Reagan, tax cuts produced immediate tax revenue gains, so did the JFK and GWB Tax Cuts.

    But, don't let that stop you, keep saying tax cuts take 25 years to pay for themselves!
    Misinformed. Taxes actually went up during Reagan. He cut loopholes and the marginal rate; however, the net result was an increase in taxes that was also more equitable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Why would one want to raise taxes? Cause there's no such thing as a free lunch. Eventually we have to pay for what we're spending. Time to cowboy up and pay the tab.
    This. If we don't do it now, its going to have to happen in 10years and when it happens then well just look at Greece, only instead of France and Germany calling the shots it will be China.

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Time to spend less.
    Time to do BOTH
    Hayek - too liberal for republicans

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    Re: Key republican bolts from debt ceiling talks

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Technically, depends on how they are done.
    That's exactly right. Some folks think that deductions and loopholes are necessarily the same thing.

    Speaking for myself, I can't afford to pay taxes on money I don't have anymore; anymore than I already am, that is.

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    Re: Key republican bolts from debt ceiling talks

    Quote Originally Posted by Gargantuan View Post
    That's been debunked, already.

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    Re: Key republican bolts from debt ceiling talks

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Eliminating a tax subsidy isn't raising taxes. Think of it like this...

    You have the Earned Income Tax Credit and the Child Tax Credit. In both cases, only those taxpayers who have dependent children who pay a certain percentage of their income to someone else to help provide care for that child (or children; i.e., "daycare") earn the credit. If you don't have qualified children, you can't claim the credit. Tax subsidies work almost the same way except they apply to business expenditures that under the tax code can be applied to your business' federal tax return, i.e., health care premiums paid by your employer. Such an expense is refunded under tax law, but it's not an increase in the marginal tax rate. It's just an expense that isn't counted as taxable income. Therefore, if the subsidy is eliminated, those formerly non-taxed earnings that would have otherwise been written off in a tax haven, i.e., insurance premiums paid, are instead counted as income where they've always been except now you can't claim the tax write-off.

    Will it move said business into a higher tax bracket? Yes, because the business won't be able to claim the tax write-off any longer. Thus, their "real" earnings will have to be properly reported without the adjustment to gross income.

    Have your taxes been raised? No, because the marginal tax rate you would have been paying had you not claimed the subsidy remains at the exact same level.

    Is it a new tax? No.
    Call it what you want, but the end result is people/businesses will be paying more taxes. I can't afford to pay more taxes right now.

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