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Poll: 44% of Americans Worse Off Under Obama

You may want to look at the process as well, as a beauty contest leads us to where we are.

Yes, it certainly has. I'm just tired of year after year, Congress after Congress, administration after administration of the same thing every time. Who ever is in charge is at fault, and then who is in charge changes and who is at fault changes, but the situation for the People does not. It just keeps getting worse. More government, more debt, more intervention. I think it's insane that we sit here pointing fingers at a side when the data and reality says that both sides are functionally equivalent. We can't change the status quo through support of the status quo. And now the parties run their own debates, and we have set up little shows for us where people run their mouths for 20 seconds and say nothing; but we're supposed to be enthralled and hang on their every word. These puppet shows with planned questions and stump speeches with no information coupled with an obviously biased and inept press.

We deserve better, we should demand better. This is our country, our government, and our Republic; and I'll be damned if I have to sit here and watch the Republocrats piss it all away.
 
J, the problem is relying on them to figure it out. Only in a government system where the government has complete control can government control the economy to any reasonable measure, and ever there it can and does get away from them. The fact is, sometimes you just have to ride it out.

What if by riding it out, nothing is done, and this system collapses? What then?

j-mac
 
Yes, it certainly has. I'm just tired of year after year, Congress after Congress, administration after administration of the same thing every time. Who ever is in charge is at fault, and then who is in charge changes and who is at fault changes, but the situation for the People does not. It just keeps getting worse. More government, more debt, more intervention. I think it's insane that we sit here pointing fingers at a side when the data and reality says that both sides are functionally equivalent. We can't change the status quo through support of the status quo. And now the parties run their own debates, and we have set up little shows for us where people run their mouths for 20 seconds and say nothing; but we're supposed to be enthralled and hang on their every word. These puppet shows with planned questions and stump speeches with no information coupled with an obviously biased and inept press.

We deserve better, we should demand better. This is our country, our government, and our Republic; and I'll be damned if I have to sit here and watch the Republocrats piss it all away.

I guess we should all clean and service our guns then.

j-mac
 
I don't find anything you said to be out of line at all. However, given our current system, how do we do that short of revolution do we do that?

j-mac

You get rid of McCain-Feingold. You limit corporations ability to influence the political arena. You remove the parties influence over the debates, and you stop having just 2 parties represented. I liked it when the League of Women Voters ran the Presidential debates, much better than now. While I understand the reasons that if you let everybody in, you could have so many candidates that you can't get any information out. Not that it's so different than now with just the two. But regardless, it doesn't mean we have to take only 2. We can take more. We should really invest in researching systems such as Instant Runoff Voting as well to encourage more people to vote and to vote for the candidate they best believe can do the job, instead of the one they best believe can win or the one which is the lesser of two evils (voting for the lesser of two evils still leaves us with evil). And we should start demanding proper performance out of the Press. This world of political entertainment which is what Fox and MSNBC and the whole lot are does not behoove us as a People nor does it promote the defense of the Republic against the expansive growth of government.

This is our Republic, if we can keep it.
 
I guess we should all clean and service our guns then.

j-mac

We should always be prepared for such, yet we should be cautious and reserved in actually calling for it.
 
What if by riding it out, nothing is done, and this system collapses? What then?

j-mac

j, you're actually arguing for the stimulus and such you opposed. That si why they did those things, to try and keep it from collapsing. There has been some really good efforts to explain this. Frontline did a nice job the other night. But, while hey worry, and rightly so, and try to keep the worse from happening, they really can't fix it. Other factors have to come together.

Now, they can stop spending more than they bring in. This requires not fighting needless wars and looking at the big three, seeking better ways to address these areas. Simply saying republcina spending is better than democrat spending is rather useless. Both need to pay for what they do, even if it means some raise in taxes (like return to preBush tax cuts). Those would have very little effect on business, but would bring in more revenue. So, tax increases with spending cuts would be a positive step in a lot of ways, but won't fix the overall economy.
 
Yes, it certainly has. I'm just tired of year after year, Congress after Congress, administration after administration of the same thing every time. Who ever is in charge is at fault, and then who is in charge changes and who is at fault changes, but the situation for the People does not. It just keeps getting worse. More government, more debt, more intervention. I think it's insane that we sit here pointing fingers at a side when the data and reality says that both sides are functionally equivalent. We can't change the status quo through support of the status quo. And now the parties run their own debates, and we have set up little shows for us where people run their mouths for 20 seconds and say nothing; but we're supposed to be enthralled and hang on their every word. These puppet shows with planned questions and stump speeches with no information coupled with an obviously biased and inept press.

We deserve better, we should demand better. This is our country, our government, and our Republic; and I'll be damned if I have to sit here and watch the Republocrats piss it all away.

I don't disagee with you. I also think we should limit the influence of money in politics and much of what you say. How to get there is the largest issue, esepcially as apathetic as the public is on the whole.
 
I don't disagee with you. I also think we should limit the influence of money in politics and much of what you say. How to get there is the largest issue, esepcially as apathetic as the public is on the whole.

"I apprehend no danger to our country from a foreign foe . . . Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter. From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence, I must confess that I do apprehend some danger. I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants, and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men, and become the instruments of their own undoing. Make them intelligent, and they will be vigilant; give them the means of detecting the wrong, and they will apply the remedy."
— Daniel Webster
 
"I apprehend no danger to our country from a foreign foe . . . Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter. From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence, I must confess that I do apprehend some danger. I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants, and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men, and become the instruments of their own undoing. Make them intelligent, and they will be vigilant; give them the means of detecting the wrong, and they will apply the remedy."
— Daniel Webster

Hadn't seen a Daniel Webster quote in a long time.
 
Well...while you are ROFLYSAO...you might want to examine what the current and previous crop of clowns have done to (errrr...for) us. Oh...you might find Libertarians funny...so by all means...keep electing democrats and republicans. Come on....how can 15 trillion in debt and actual unemployment well over 20% POSSIBLY be a black eye on your two parties?

If you think Reaganomics was bad, just try and implement the Libertarian fantasyland system. America would truly become a third world country.
 
Whether or not they would have helped the economy is a basis of ideology. If you don't feel something will be beneficial, why do it? Even the CBO and economists are split on how helpful or how a big a hinderance some of the successfully passed policies have been.

Sorry, but that is a cop-out. Doing nothing is not doing something, no matter how you want to spin it. Basically you are saying that Republicans have no idea how to help the country. While I agree that Republicans have no clue, they certainly have ideas, backward as they may be, but they lack either the cojones or brain power to put them on the table. They would rather block any idea coming from the left or the President, not because they believe the bills would not be successful or beneficial, but because they know that a poor economy is their very best chance to unseat Obama in '12, and as Mitch McConnel has said, getting Obama out of office is the only priority the Republicans have, the workers and the economy be damned (I'm paraphrasing, of course).
 

It always amazes me, on this forum and on others, how "at the ready" conservatives are with links to stories and information. Too bad the links and information they direct you to consist of either bad, inaccurate, or misleading information, or the link itself has no bearing on the topic at hand. Such is the case here.

Your link is to a Politico story about opening up drilling in three areas of the country. This bill would not lower gas prices, not even one cent, so I hope you did not post the link to imply that Republicans are trying to help the economy with this pathetic bill. The House Republicans are doing their masters bidding, nothing more, and Senate Dems see it for what it is. Kudos to the Dems for throwing the high price of gasolense as leverage in repreiving the oil companies of their rediculous subsidies.
 
If you think Reaganomics was bad, just try and implement the Libertarian fantasyland system. America would truly become a third world country.

Please...what do you think is happening under YOUR happy leadership? 15 trillion...and counting...go ahead and apoligize to your grandchildren in advance for the ****ed mess you have left them.
 
Dear Allah, you suck at this...

The new players and coaching staff are his administration... not the economy.

The previous administration is the old team management and coaching staff.

Not making the playoffs is not improving the economy.

The current team management and coaching staff (Obama & his administration), are blaming the previous team management and coaching staff (Bush and his administration), for not making the playoffs (improving the economy).

1993-2010-unemployment-rates-clinton-bush-obama.jpg

So if you have an entirely new team, and the officials are totally in the pocket of your opposition. And your locker rooms are freezing because there's no money for heat, so everybody has a cold all the time. And none of the practise balls will hold air.

NOW do you get it?
 
So if you have an entirely new team, and the officials are totally in the pocket of your opposition. And your locker rooms are freezing because there's no money for heat, so everybody has a cold all the time. And none of the practise balls will hold air.

NOW do you get it?

Obviously more so than you do.
 
I absolutely disagree that the government cannot significantly help or hinder the economy.
So you must agree that it was Bush who was resposible for the deep recession during his term in office???
 
Please...what do you think is happening under YOUR happy leadership? 15 trillion...and counting...go ahead and apoligize to your grandchildren in advance for the ****ed mess you have left them.
Most of that debt was created under Republican presidents, Reagan, Bush 41, Bush 43.
 
Most of that debt was created under Republican presidents, Reagan, Bush 41, Bush 43.

Really? How has it been since dems took over the budget in 2007? Cuz...dems do a MUCH better job... :lamo
 
As a liberal I would love to defend Obama against all accusations, but I think the honest answer here is that he isn't perfect in handling this financial crisis, but he is definitely doing what he believes will help the most. Of course, what is the right way or the best way we will never find out, liberals like myself think stimulus will help, conservatives thinks just let the banks fail and free economy will take care of the rest.

But we do know one thing, the crashing of the housing market was the key to the economic collapse and if we recover, we better make some meaningful changes there. If you need to blame someone for the bad economy, the people who started this housing bust, those who installed the policies that inflated the market, allowed the banks to use debt as an unregulated trading instrument should ultimately be responsible. Everyone else are just trying to fix this mess.
 
The President and the financial system collapsing are mutually exclusive. If we had a Republican President the shame **** would be happening. The bail outs would have happened and we would still have financial mismanagement.

I wish people would take off their partisan blinders and get with the ****ing program already.
 
Most of that debt was created under Republican presidents, Reagan, Bush 41, Bush 43.

The Weekly Standard: Obama Vs. Bush On Debt : NPR
How do Bush and Obama compare on closer inspection? Just about like they do on an initial glance. According to the White House's Office of Management and Budget, during his eight fiscal years, Bush ran up a total of $3.283 trillion in deficit spending (p. 22). In his first two fiscal years, Obama will run up a total of $2.826 trillion in deficit spending ($1.294 trillion in 2010, an estimated $1.267 trillion in 2011 (p. 23), and the $265 billion in "stimulus" money that was spent in 2009). Thus, Bush ran up an average of $410 billion in deficit spending per year, while Obama is running up an average of $1.413 trillion in deficit spending per year — or $1.003 trillion a year more than Bush.
 
So you must agree that it was Bush who was resposible for the deep recession during his term in office???

yup.

But at this point, I don't give a **** who's fault it is...

****ING FIX IT!

And THAT, my dear PB, is the responsibility of the current president and his administration.
 
Please...what do you think is happening under YOUR happy leadership? 15 trillion...and counting...go ahead and apoligize to your grandchildren in advance for the ****ed mess you have left them.

The sad part is that you think this all happened under Obama. Or are you simply blaming Obama due to some sort of partisan Red-Blue Summer Camp color war mindset.
 
Obviously more so than you do.

So I take it your link to the post-autistic economics site in another thread was facetious, then. Or are you just having a had time deciding where to "draw the line"?

Pretty disingenuous to pretend that large scale economic problems can be solved by new management immediately
That there are no other factors involvd.
 
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