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Thread: Poll: 44% of Americans Worse Off Under Obama

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    Re: Poll: 44% of Americans Worse Off Under Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I just don't blieve (sic) they can.
    Romer and Bernstein on stimulus - NYTimes.com

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    Re: Poll: 44% of Americans Worse Off Under Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    It is at least in part his fault, through his policies. It is COMPLETELY his responsibility to correct it. He is the President... captain of the ship. At this point, I think a lot of people think they are on the Titanic.
    Again, I don't believe he or any leader can correct it. There are too many forces outside the government that effect it. Now, if you want to go to a government more like, say, China's, then they could probably do more. But I don't think you really want that.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Poll: 44% of Americans Worse Off Under Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You may disagree. You wouldn't be the first. But I believe if they could, they would. If the election was all Obama cared about, he would have the economy humming. Same with congress critters. The fact that neither party can get it there suggests that they can't.
    What you fail to understand, is that Obama was, and may still be, convinced that his policy decisions and programs (Stimulus, etc.) should have gotten the economy humming.

    They didn't.

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    Re: Poll: 44% of Americans Worse Off Under Obama

    Okay. Here's my honest take on this.

    The thread/article title is meant to induce a correlation = causation, or "post hoc ergo propter hoc" type of fallacy. Just because 44% of Americans feel that they are "worse off" under Obama, doesn't not mean Obama is entirely responsible for them being worse off. Capische?

    Remember, Obama took over an economy that was in a downward spiral back then. It was all ANY president could do to arrest the descent, much less climb out of the hole. During the worst part of the recession, we were bleeding of hundreds of thousands of jobs PER MONTH. I mean, at least we're on a positive trajectory now.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Poll: 44% of Americans Worse Off Under Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Okay. Here's my honest take on this.

    The thread/article title is meant to induce a correlation = causation, or "post hoc ergo propter hoc" type of fallacy. Just because 44% of Americans feel that they are "worse off" under Obama, doesn't not mean Obama is entirely responsible for them being worse off. Capische?

    Remember, Obama took over an economy that was in a downward spiral back then. It was all ANY president could do to arrest the descent, much less climb out of the hole. During the worst part of the recession, we were bleeding of hundreds of thousands of jobs PER MONTH. I mean, at least we're on a positive trajectory now.
    Why you wanna go and ruin a perfectly good rightwing circle-jerk? LOL!

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
    Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy" until you can find a gun.

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    Re: Poll: 44% of Americans Worse Off Under Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I don't believe he or any leader can correct it.
    sure

    so why should anyone listen to ROMER and BERNSTEIN?

    LOL!

    good thinking

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    Re: Poll: 44% of Americans Worse Off Under Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    What you fail to understand, is that Obama was, and may still be, convinced that his policy decisions and programs (Stimulus, etc.) should have gotten the economy humming.

    They didn't.
    I've mentioned this elsewhere. I know the word "stimulus" has a pretty bad rap right now in our current political discourse, but if you look at history, fiscal stimulus actually has a pretty good track record.

    I think the problem with Obama's stimulus is that it was nowhere near large enough to fix the size of the problem it was meant to solve. On the flip side, for it to have been even larger would have been politically unfeasible.

    As my economics professors (both liberal and conservative) like to say...good economics =/= good politics, and vice versa.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Poll: 44% of Americans Worse Off Under Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    Why you wanna go and ruin a perfectly good rightwing circle-jerk? LOL!
    I haven't posted seriously in about two weeks. I'm in a better mood today.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Poll: 44% of Americans Worse Off Under Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    What you fail to understand, is that Obama was, and may still be, convinced that his policy decisions and programs (Stimulus, etc.) should have gotten the economy humming.

    They didn't.
    Don't know whether they did or didn't. As long as I've been alive Presidents have spun the positive message. I believe they do this in part to help us with confidence (which is needed) and to be able to take credit if they get lucky and it happens. They know they get the blame, deserved or not, if it doesn't. But at least they can get credit if it happens to improve.

    I think those who believe government can fix the economy feed the government is the answer mentality. I find it odd that as many republicans as democrats favor the government fixing it. So much for any real difference between the two.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Poll: 44% of Americans Worse Off Under Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    It seems that Republicans are winning the messaging war, as usual. Unfortunately for the country, the Republicans look at the faultering economy with greedy eyes, and they have no intention of doing anything to help revive the economy until they win back the White House. They have been trying to sabotage any efforts to help the economy since Obama was elected, and proof of that is the number of bills that Republicans have backed or sponsored that would have gone towards helping the economy: zero. Their duplicity is transparent, as are their souls.
    "Action expresses priorities."
    ~Mohandas Gandhi

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