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New York Atheists Angry Over 'Heaven' Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 victims

Erod

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New York Atheists Angry Over 'Heaven' Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 Victims - FoxNews.com

A group of New York City atheists is demanding that the city remove a street sign honoring seven firefighters killed in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks because they say the sign violates the separation of church and state.

The street, “Seven in Heaven Way,” was officially dedicated last weekend in Brooklyn outside the firehouse where the firefighters once served. The ceremony was attended by dozens of firefighters, city leaders and widows of the fallen men.

“There should be no signage or displays of religious nature in the public domain,” said Ken Bronstein, president of New York City Atheists. “It’s really insulting to us.” Bronstein told Fox News Radio that his organization was especially concerned with the use of the word “heaven.” “We’ve concluded as atheists there is no heaven and there’s no hell,” he said.

Ah, yes, here's your American atheist in full form.

Question: If you truly believe there is no such thing as God, and therefore our lives and deaths don't really mean anything, why do you care? Why is this such a big deal? Is this not like scolding people for watching vampire movies, or children for watching Barney?

Or is it......you crave worth and attention and must be acknowledged no matter what.

Atheists are funny. They've created an existence out of nothing. I don't believe in unicorns, but I didn't fashion a title for myself, nor do I practice within a group, to acknowledge that I don't believe in unicorns.
 
New York Atheists Angry Over 'Heaven' Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 Victims - FoxNews.com



Ah, yes, here's your American atheist in full form.

Question: If you truly believe there is no such thing as God, and therefore our lives and deaths don't really mean anything, why do you care? Why is this such a big deal? Is this not like scolding people for watching vampire movies, or children for watching Barney?

Or is it......you crave worth and attention and must be acknowledged no matter what.

Atheists are funny. They've created an existence out of nothing. I don't believe in unicorns, but I didn't fashion a title for myself, nor do I practice within a group, to acknowledge that I don't believe in unicorns.

Oh no if they name streets signs with a religious or semi-religious message in it we will have forced church service, the inquisition and the Salam Witch trials all over again.......Oh the horror.
 
I think this group is an ill-considered representation of all athiests, so I'll ignore your generalizations there.

I have no problem with those black and white God billboards, or church advertisements, or evangelicals on television. I don't really care of we name a street "God's way", "The Path of Christ" or anything else. This is one group of idiots trying to bring publicity to their cause. Not being an active believer in God, I still don't see any justification for their argument. This sign in no way violates Separation of Church and State assuming the men who died were all of a Christian orientation, so their argument is moot, too.

All of that said, why is it not okay for them to act like idiots, but perfectly okay for you to disrespect their beliefs?
 
Question: If you truly believe there is no such thing as God, and therefore our lives and deaths don't really mean anything, why do you care? Why is this such a big deal?

It's not a big deal at all. In fact, the vast majority of atheists don't give a damned. The fact of the matter is the group of people you so eagerly call American Atheist in full form is not what you want it to mean. You've essentially grouped the whole of atheists together, and for the most part we don't really speak out on things such as this. There's a vocal minority of anti-theists out there, but those people have political agenda and try to push it. I typically ignore them because they tend to be ignorant.

Atheists are funny. They've created an existence out of nothing. I don't believe in unicorns, but I didn't fashion a title for myself, nor do I practice within a group, to acknowledge that I don't believe in unicorns.

We don't really do that either. But hey, thanks for the generalizations and misrepresentations of an entire community.
 
I don't believe in God nor do I want anything religious in my life, but this is honestly just stupid **** to complain about.
 
somebody's always outraged about something. :shrug:
 
This atheist has more in common with the people that freak out when NBC left out "under god" then he probably thinks.
 
New York Atheists Angry Over 'Heaven' Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 Victims - FoxNews.com



Ah, yes, here's your American atheist in full form.

Question: If you truly believe there is no such thing as God, and therefore our lives and deaths don't really mean anything, why do you care? Why is this such a big deal? Is this not like scolding people for watching vampire movies, or children for watching Barney?

Or is it......you crave worth and attention and must be acknowledged no matter what.

Atheists are funny. They've created an existence out of nothing. I don't believe in unicorns, but I didn't fashion a title for myself, nor do I practice within a group, to acknowledge that I don't believe in unicorns.

This (I'm assuming very small) group of atheists are complaining about something very silly. Fred Phelps and his small cult of a church do stupid things. If this small group of atheists represent all atheists then I'll go ahead and posit that Phelps represents all Christians.

Unless you're willing to walk back your generalization, why do you think that protesting dead soldiers funerals are a good thing? Why do you think God hates gay people?
 
Question: If you truly believe there is no such thing as God,
OK
and therefore our lives and deaths don't really mean anything,
Where did you get that as a "therefore"?

You're also generalizing atheists.

And the notion that atheists desire to get attention, when you're comparing christians to atheists, is just absurd. You're making a fool of yourself in complaining about this. Ignore it, they are free to do that, and you make way too many obvious mistakes when you attempted to be critical of them out of...probably out of the goodness of your god-blessed-heart I'm guessing.
 
If you truly believe there is no such thing as God, and therefore our lives and deaths don't really mean anything,

I think in a way it can mean more to atheists. It's your one life. Live it up, spend time with loved ones, cherish every moment.
 
So... let me get this straight... if it was not for the religious people who are outraged over this and wanting to use it for political gain against the athiest community, a community they hate and want banned if not dealt with like the old days... then this story would have died in its infancy and be registered under "some idiot complains over a name"?
 
Why would the absence of God make our lives not have meaning? That doesn't make any sense.
 
That particular breed of atheists (is evangelical atheist an oxymoron?) better stay out of California. We have cities and streets named for saints and religious concepts all over. Our capital is Sacramento (the sacrament), Los Angeles (the angels) is one of our biggest cities, and they wouldn't even feel at home in one of the most liberal cities in the country, Saint Francis (San Francisco).

They don't like "seven in Heaven?" What a bunch of silliness.
 
I think this group is an ill-considered representation of all athiests, so I'll ignore your generalizations there.

I have no problem with those black and white God billboards, or church advertisements, or evangelicals on television. I don't really care of we name a street "God's way", "The Path of Christ" or anything else. This is one group of idiots trying to bring publicity to their cause. Not being an active believer in God, I still don't see any justification for their argument. This sign in no way violates Separation of Church and State assuming the men who died were all of a Christian orientation, so their argument is moot, too.

All of that said, why is it not okay for them to act like idiots, but perfectly okay for you to disrespect their beliefs?


Their belief is that there can be no religious impact in public action, in any shape, fashion or form. They also believe in the false belief that there is a separation of Church and State.
 
Their belief is that there can be no religious impact in public action, in any shape, fashion or form.

Yeah some believe that some don't. Just like some Christians believe we live in a Christian nation and some don't.
 
Their belief is that there can be no religious impact in public action, in any shape, fashion or form. They also believe in the false belief that there is a separation of Church and State.

There is a separation of church and state, and I'm not sure you "their" or "they" is in this conversation.
 
New York Atheists Angry Over 'Heaven' Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 Victims - FoxNews.com

Ah, yes, here's your American atheist in full form.

Question: If you truly believe there is no such thing as God, and therefore our lives and deaths don't really mean anything, why do you care? Why is this such a big deal? Is this not like scolding people for watching vampire movies, or children for watching Barney?

Or is it......you crave worth and attention and must be acknowledged no matter what.

Atheists are funny. They've created an existence out of nothing. I don't believe in unicorns, but I didn't fashion a title for myself, nor do I practice within a group, to acknowledge that I don't believe in unicorns.

I'm a pretty loud atheist, and I think this is silly. :shrug: Actually, as a writer, I somewhat appreciate the poetry of it. I utilize all sorts of concepts I consider mythological in art.

So... stupid people come in all stripes. What's new. You seem to have the false impression that atheism in general has any unified ideology. It doesn't. One atheist to another may have absolutely nothing in common apart from a disbelief in deities. We don't work like a religion, as hard as that seems to be for the religious to understand.

How do you get from a disbelief in god to life having no meaning? I think religion makes life meaningless, actually. This world is just a holding cell to somewhere else to the religious. To an atheist, this is all you get. Your one shot. Better make it count.

Life has enormous meaning when you're an atheist. You're ignorant of what atheism is, and you refuse to try to understand it.

You've simply gone out of your way to find the silliest possible representation you could and apply it to all atheists. I can do that too. And guess what - the silliest thing I can find religious people doing is going to be a hell of a lot worse. Will you defend Westboro? How about "Christian scientists" who let their children die of ear infections?
 
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There is a separation of church and state, and I'm not sure you "their" or "they" is in this conversation.

No, there isn't.

There is a :Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

The two are not the same.

For example:

It is no exaggeration to say that on Sundays in Washington during the administrations of Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809) and of James Madison (1809-1817) the state became the church. Within a year of his inauguration, Jefferson began attending church services in the House of Representatives. Madison followed Jefferson's example, although unlike Jefferson, who rode on horseback to church in the Capitol, Madison came in a coach and four. Worship services in the House--a practice that continued until after the Civil War--were acceptable to Jefferson because they were nondiscriminatory and voluntary.
Religion and the Federal Government: PART 2 (Religion and the Founding of the American Republic, Library of Congress Exhibition)

The State cannot establish a Religion, that does not mean there can be no religion in Public life.
 
Let's play a game... it's called: take one person who believes something and make them represent everyone else!

Yeah, I'm sure the militant atheist pinko commie revolutionists were out in full force that day. :roll:
 
No, there isn't.

There is a :Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

The two are not the same.

For example:


Religion and the Federal Government: PART 2 (Religion and the Founding of the American Republic, Library of Congress Exhibition)

The State cannot establish a Religion, that does not mean there can be no religion in Public life.

You apparently have a different definition of "separation of church and state" than I do. Under your definition it would be impossible for anybody of religious bearing to serve the government without violating a sense of "separation"....but that isn't what the phrase refers to...at least not to my understanding.
 
Ah, yes, here's your American atheist in full form.

Despite what you may think, Atheists are not a United front, and there is no such thing as a specifically 'American' Atheism.

Question: If you truly believe there is no such thing as God,

No self-respecting Atheist will definitively claim that there is no god, merely that his/her/it's/their proponants haven't even come close to making their prima facie case.

and therefore our lives and deaths don't really mean anything,

This is a total non-sequitor.

why do you care? Why is this such a big deal? Is this not like scolding people for watching vampire movies, or children for watching Barney?

Or is it......you crave worth and attention and must be acknowledged no matter what.

Well, the major issue is, thankfully, in the United States, we have a constitution which creates a barrier between the church and the state, which is one of the most progressive, and modern aspects of the American system. I happen to think it's a marvelous idea. However, this part of our constitution is constantly under assault by religious dogmatists.

Atheists are funny. They've created an existence out of nothing. I don't believe in unicorns, but I didn't fashion a title for myself, nor do I practice within a group, to acknowledge that I don't believe in unicorns.

On this point I'm almost entirely agreed. To proclaim oneself an Athiest is like proclaiming oneself to be a non-Astrolager. This distinction would cease to have any value, were it not that (Unfortunately.) those who do not believe in insane, and unsubstantiated beliefs about the nature of the universe, etc., are in the minority.
 
No self-respecting Atheist will definitively claim that there is no god, merely that his/her/it's/their proponants haven't even come close to making their prima facie case.

Seeing how a lot of atheist say God is a fairy tale the bible is nothing more than a Harry Potter book then I am pretty sure they have no problem claiming God is not real.
 
Seeing how a lot of atheist say God is a fairy tale the bible is nothing more than a Harry Potter book then I am pretty sure they have no problem claiming God is not real.

I can't disprove the existence of unicorns. I cannot tell you with 100% certainty that unicorns do not exist. Does that make them any less of a fairytale? Does that mean I should seriously consider the existence of unicorns? Does the fact that there is no evidence for or against their existence, and that I can never 100% prove they do not exist make believing in unicorns a valid theory worthy of my respect?
 
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Is this a violation of church and state separation? Yes, because it fails the lemon test.

Is it a "big deal". No.

Imagine if the sign read "21 virgin street" or "there is no heaven alley". We'd see Christians come out of the woodwork to complain.

Question: If you truly believe there is no such thing as God, and therefore our lives and deaths don't really mean anything...
my life has plenty of meaning. No belief in a god is required to find meaning in your life.

Why is this such a big deal?
Its a violation of church and state separation, granted a minor one.

Would you be bothered if the US government gave $100 to the Mormon church every year as a gift? Obviously its not a big deal but is it worth complaining over if you feel so inclined?

I don't believe in unicorns, but I didn't fashion a title for myself, nor do I practice within a group, to acknowledge that I don't believe in unicorns.
If 80% of the population you lived in believed in unicorns then you probably would identify with people who share your disbelief in unicorns.
 
Well, it is.

I can't disprove the existence of unicorns. I cannot tell you with 100% certainty that unicorns do not exist. Does that make them any less of a fairytale? Does that mean I should seriously consider the existence of unicorns? Does the fact that there is no evidence for or against their existence, and that I can never 100% prove they do not exist make believing in unicorns a valid theory worthy of my respect?
1. I'm a theist and I don't care if you respect me, so you can step down from your little pedestal.
2. Nobody posits that unicorns are an explanation for the beginning of the universe so comparing them to ideas of God is nonsensical.
 
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