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Thread: New York Atheists Angry Over 'Heaven' Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 victims

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    Re: New York Atheists Angry Over 'Heaven' Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 victims

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    It doesn't, to whether or not it deserves respect or has truth. The genesis of both concepts is the same.
    The genesis of every concept is the same - every concept is a conclusion made from observation and reason. Concepts are differentiated in other ways - like purpose and the purpose is different.

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    Re: New York Atheists Angry Over 'Heaven' Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 victims

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Their belief is that there can be no religious impact in public action, in any shape, fashion or form. They also believe in the false belief that there is a separation of Church and State.
    Every group has their crazies. The anti-theists are a bit out of their minds. Best to ignore them.
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    Re: New York Atheists Angry Over 'Heaven' Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 victims

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    The genesis of every concept is the same - every concept is a conclusion made from observation and reason. Concepts are differentiated in other ways - like purpose and the purpose is different.
    I would very much dispute that given what we know about the historical origins of most religions. Most are born of a very, very large leap in order to quell the fear of the unknown in the originator. Since, at the time, there wasn't any valid way of actually measuring ones observations, let alone applying reason to the conclusion, this wasn't really a requirement for religion.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 06-21-11 at 08:47 PM.

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    Re: New York Atheists Angry Over 'Heaven' Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 victims

    I think this is incredibly stupid and immature. Reading the article and some of their arguments really displays this groups illogical reasoning and the sheer hatred or "offense" that they feel towards anything religious or spiritual in nature. I know this doesn't represent all atheists, but groups like this are simply insane.
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    Re: New York Atheists Angry Over 'Heaven' Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 victims

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I think this is incredibly stupid and immature. Reading the article and some of their arguments really displays this groups illogical reasoning and the sheer hatred or "offense" that they feel towards anything religious or spiritual in nature. I know this doesn't represent all atheists, but groups like this are simply insane.
    both sides have their crazies. IMO the only people who are offended by something like this are those who are going out of their way to choose to be offended.

    That being said, some of the idiotic generalizations of atheists in this thread are pretty disgusting as well.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

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    Re: New York Atheists Angry Over 'Heaven' Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 victims

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    I would very dispute that given what we know about the historical origins of most religions. Most are born of a very, very large leap in order to quell the fear of the unknown in the originator. Since, at the time, there wasn't any valid way of actually measuring ones observations, let alone applying reason to the conclusion, this wasn't really a requirement for religion.
    The hypothesis of God is one that comes from both observation and reason. Acceptance or rejection of the hypothesis blindly does not.

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    Re: New York Atheists Angry Over 'Heaven' Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 victims

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    2. Nobody posits that unicorns are an explanation for the beginning of the universe so comparing them to ideas of God is nonsensical.
    1. Unicorns are a simple and telling way of pointing out that there is no evidence for either unicorns or God.

    2. The lack of evidence for unicorns is systematic and due to the kind of thinking that goes along with believing in unicorns. There is no evidence against unicorns because the believer does not allow them to be falsified. Unicorns can always make themselves invisible or trick our scientific devices or if they so wish, never be caught or seen or heard. Only when they wish do we get to meet them. The point being made is that God is the ultimate unicorn. Belief in unicorns can always be put beyond falsification if the believer is so determined. Belief in unicorns is not contingent on the "evidence" because all data can be interpreted within the unicorn narrative. The point is that another belief organized in like fashion is as meaningful as believing in unicorns.

    I want to criticize all theists not just Christians and I want to be able say with a neat comparison or analogy that:

    1/ there is zero evidence for your belief or at least no more evidence than there is for X (X is something like unicorns that does not insult).
    2/ You will not allow your belief to be falsified
    3/ that your belief system is just like any non falsifiable cultural narrative (non religious ones too).


    Some people have moved their religious belief beyond the issues raised here. It would be inappropriate to use the "unicorn argument" against such people who:

    1/ do not believe in miracles or supernatural intervention.
    2/ do not believe some fact or other is evidence of God when never allowing that belief to be falsified.

    For all other people the comparison is just.
    Last edited by scourge99; 06-21-11 at 08:58 PM.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

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    Re: New York Atheists Angry Over 'Heaven' Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 victims

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    The hypothesis of God is one that comes from both observation and reason. Acceptance or rejection of the hypothesis blindly does not.
    So you've asserted - twice now - with no explaination. I'll assume you simply have no response to what I said.

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    Re: New York Atheists Angry Over 'Heaven' Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 victims

    I have an idea: How about the Bible beaters agree to stop pissin'-n-moanin' about the absence of, "under God", in the Pledge of Alegiance and the atheists stop pissin'-n-moanin' about every little insignificant reference to religion?

    Whatcha' think?

    Naw, that would make too much ****ing sense.

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    Re: New York Atheists Angry Over 'Heaven' Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 victims

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I have an idea: How about the Bible beaters agree to stop pissin'-n-moanin' about the absence of, "under God", in the Pledge of Alegiance and the atheists stop pissin'-n-moanin' about every little insignificant reference to religion?

    Whatcha' think?

    Naw, that would make too much ****ing sense.

    Only if you go to Disney Land on Gay Gay

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