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McCain under fire for blaming blazes on immigrants

j-mac

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SIERRA VISTA, Ariz. (AP) - As if Arizona's immigration debate wasn't already hot, Sen. John McCain has ignited a barrage of criticism by saying that there is "substantial evidence" that illegal immigrants are partly responsible for wildfires in the state.
McCain is standing by the statement he made over the weekend as he toured a massive wildfire in eastern Arizona, but immigrant rights advocates say the state's senior senator is using illegal immigrants as scapegoats. Authorities have said humans started the three major blazes in Arizona, but investigators don't know any more details.
"It's his constant refrain for everything that ails mankind," said Roberto Reveles, the founding president and a current member of the Phoenix-based Hispanic civil rights group Somos America. "It just seems like we have an epidemic of, 'Blame it all on the illegal aliens, blame it all on the Mexicans.' It's amazing that the public doesn't rebel against this type of scapegoating."


My Way News - McCain under fire for blaming blazes on immigrants


I love how the AP misrepresents what McCain said here....McCain was speaking about the southern fire, and was citing congressional testimony from the border patrol, and Parks service when he said that cooking fires, and such were responsible for a substantial number of wild fires in southern border regions....

These reporters " " have to know this. They are intentionally lying in their story.


j-mac
 
C'mon, does anyone really doubt this with the state starting to finally stand up to these illegals?
 
I love how the AP misrepresents what McCain said here....McCain was speaking about the southern fire, and was citing congressional testimony from the border patrol, and Parks service when he said that cooking fires, and such were responsible for a substantial number of wild fires in southern border regions....

These reporters " " have to know this. They are intentionally lying in their story.


j-mac

you expect different from the media?
 
McCain is right. The weather is so dry in the region that those passing into the country illegally do cause many of the fires. I do not understand why these immigrant groups think that US citizens should want to protect peoples who are illegally pouring into this nation and acting more as a burden than a benefit.
 
McCain is right. The weather is so dry in the region that those passing into the country illegally do cause many of the fires. I do not understand why these immigrant groups think that US citizens should want to protect peoples who are illegally pouring into this nation and acting more as a burden than a benefit.

I can't speak for Arizona, but the wildfires near Houston have specific causes.

1) The Stoneham fire (Grimes County) - Started by 2 white guys accidentally tipping over a barbeque pit.

2) The Bearing fire (Near Huntsville) - Started by a white guy who pulled off the road and an overheated bearing on trailer he was pulling caught brush on fire.

3) The Dyer Mills Fire (Grimes County) - Started by someone throwing a lit cigarette he was finished smoking out his car window. There is no evidence that this man was Hispanic. He could have been, but he could have also been black or white.

4) The Jasper County Fire - Started by white hunters shooting at acetylene bottles. Sparks from the bullets hitting the bottles started the fire.

Illegal aliens abound in all the above areas.

1) Do illegal aliens cause some fires? Probably, but statistics bear out the fact that the race of those who start fires, either intentionally or accidentally, is independent of the fires themselves.

2) Does John McCain hate illegals, and is John McCain looking to scapegoat illegals? Hell no. But here is the problem. The phrase "Illegal alien" is such a hot button phrase that mentioning it in a sentence tends to make people believe that the illegal alien is strongly associated with other items in that sentence. Here is an example sentence, which I am pulling out of my ass:

The body was found dismembered, in an area that illegal aliens frequent.

And there you have an association, which would tend to make people jump to the conclusion that illegal aliens probably murdered the person.

John McCain is a pretty decent person, and is not a racist, but he is prone to making gaffes, which IMHO, this is one. It's nothing to accuse McCain of racism over, but McCain has shown here, and also in the past, that he is not the brightest crayon in the box.
 
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Well, that's great anecdotal evidence dana, but how do you square that with testimony given to the hearing that McCain was referencing?


j-mac
 
IMO, the controversy is largely self-inflicted, not the consequence of media bias. At root is the Senator's below average communication skills, one factor that hurt him during his 2008 Presidential campaign. If one goes to news accounts published on the day of his press conference, Senator McCain did not cite previous Congressional testimony. CNN reported:

"There is substantial evidence that some of these fires have been caused by people who have crossed our border illegally," McCain, R-Arizona, said Saturday at a press conference. "The answer to that part of the problem is to get a secure border."

The Arizona senator, however, did not say what the evidence is...

McCain blames some Arizona wildfires on illegal immigrants - CNN.com

Had the Senator specified to what evidence he was referring, there would likely have been much less controversy. However, he didn't. In failing to do so, he lost control of the situation and let his omission shape perceptions.
 
OK, you're an illegal running drugs and people into the United States across the Arizona border. Doesn't a succession of forest fires attract attention and manpower away from securing the borders? Does it not behoove you to create such a distraction?
 
The Liberal treatment of the illegal alien problem seems to be deny it's real and eventually we'll forget about it.

From what I can figure out most crimes illegal aliens commit never make the news.

Since I was a little kid living just east of San Diego illegal aliens have been starting fires in the back country.
 
The Liberal treatment of the illegal alien problem seems to be deny it's real and eventually we'll forget about it.

From what I can figure out most crimes illegal aliens commit never make the news.

Since I was a little kid living just east of San Diego illegal aliens have been starting fires in the back country.

And so have white people. Of the 20 major wildfires going on in Southeast Texas right now, not a single one was started by an illegal alien, although there are plenty of illegal aliens here. But I can see how it is so easy to blame it all on illegals. Don't get me wrong. I don't like illegals living here any more than you do, but I am not going to accuse them of anything without any evidence....... Oh yea, evidence. That's a novel idea. Do you have any evidence that illegals set the fires in Arizona? And I mean real hard evidence. Blaming it all on illegals does smack of racism. Not even John McCain, with the gaffe that he made, went where you are going.
 
And so have white people. Of the 20 major wildfires going on in Southeast Texas right now, not a single one was started by an illegal alien, although there are plenty of illegal aliens here. But I can see how it is so easy to blame it all on illegals. Don't get me wrong. I don't like illegals living here any more than you do, but I am not going to accuse them of anything without any evidence....... Oh yea, evidence. That's a novel idea. Do you have any evidence that illegals set the fires in Arizona? And I mean real hard evidence. Blaming it all on illegals does smack of racism. Not even John McCain, with the gaffe that he made, went where you are going.


I don't think he went to a racist take on it at all. He didn't use any absolutes in his perceptions of whom may be responsible, but only told us of where he grew up, and what he personally observed.

Seems alot of people that hold the notion that illegal aliens are just fine here, jump awfully quick to the racism charge to stifle debate about their presence, a tactic used most often by the left in this country dana.

j-mac
 
I love how the AP misrepresents what McCain said here....McCain was speaking about the southern fire, and was citing congressional testimony from the border patrol, and Parks service when he said that cooking fires, and such were responsible for a substantial number of wild fires in southern border regions....

These reporters " " have to know this. They are intentionally lying in their story.
Well, that's great anecdotal evidence dana, but how do you square that with testimony given to the hearing that McCain was referencing?

Don't source information, bash others for not sourcing information. Ok Mac and Cheese.
 
Don't source information, bash others for not sourcing information. Ok Mac and Cheese.


I was referencing an interview on the morning program with McCain yesterday about that subject...Ok there no so Wiseone?


j-mac
 
I was referencing an interview on the morning program with McCain yesterday about that subject...Ok there no so Wiseone?

This is the exact definition of an anecdote. Simply saying you saw or heard something, without any other information than you're story to back it up, the literal definition of an anecdote. So, no its not ok because frankly I don't believe you and I want to see the source material for myself because your anecdote isn't good enough.
 
This is the exact definition of an anecdote. Simply saying you saw or heard something, without any other information than you're story to back it up, the literal definition of an anecdote. So, no its not ok because frankly I don't believe you and I want to see the source material for myself because your anecdote isn't good enough.

Well I wasn't aware that I had to have your approval to express my opinion on an opinion message board...Plus I don't suspect that even if I searched, and found the interview of McCain saying this in his own words, it would be good enough for you anyway.

You don't believe me? eh so what. I guess we'll move on then...

j-mac
 
Well I wasn't aware that I had to have your approval to express my opinion on an opinion message board...Plus I don't suspect that even if I searched, and found the interview of McCain saying this in his own words, it would be good enough for you anyway.

You don't believe me? eh so what. I guess we'll move on then...

j-mac

If that's the standard you're upholding, should anyone else be allowed to simply say "I won't convince you anyway, therefore I won't source my material." You wouldn't believe me or many other individuals you consider liberals or whatever else without a source, and even then you also may not believe it. I'm simply asking for a source, I've got no dog in this fight and I'm unbiased. It doesn't matter to me if McCain had a source or not, although I'm quite sure he did, I just want to see the source material McCain based his opinion on to see if, after I read it, I come to a similar conculsion or not, ie if I agree or disagree. Right now I have no opinion other than you're a hypocrite for demanding a source but failing to provide on yourself, but that's really not the topic of this thread.
 
If that's the standard you're upholding, should anyone else be allowed to simply say "I won't convince you anyway, therefore I won't source my material." You wouldn't believe me or many other individuals you consider liberals or whatever else without a source, and even then you also may not believe it. I'm simply asking for a source, I've got no dog in this fight and I'm unbiased. It doesn't matter to me if McCain had a source or not, although I'm quite sure he did, I just want to see the source material McCain based his opinion on to see if, after I read it, I come to a similar conculsion or not, ie if I agree or disagree. Right now I have no opinion other than you're a hypocrite for demanding a source but failing to provide on yourself, but that's really not the topic of this thread.


:lamo Yeah ok....



There you go.

j-mac
 
I think he sounds pretty squared away in my opinion. I mean it would be great to see the source material myself but he seemed to reference well enough and with actual quotations. Frankly, I have to agree that some wildfires have been started by illegal immigrants, not all of course just like he said, but some certainly.
 
I think he sounds pretty squared away in my opinion. I mean it would be great to see the source material myself but he seemed to reference well enough and with actual quotations. Frankly, I have to agree that some wildfires have been started by illegal immigrants, not all of course just like he said, but some certainly.

thank you, and I apologize if I jumped the gun on making assumptions on where you were headed with that....I shouldn't have assumed that you had ulterior motives.

j-mac
 
I love how the AP misrepresents what McCain said here....McCain was speaking about the southern fire, and was citing congressional testimony from the border patrol, and Parks service when he said that cooking fires, and such were responsible for a substantial number of wild fires in southern border regions....

These reporters " " have to know this. They are intentionally lying in their story.


j-mac

Maybe McRino is trying to use this so that he can later argue that if we granted Amnesty to illegals then illegals(although he would probably call them undocumented immigrants) would not need to make little campfires thus not causing any more fires.
 
I think he sounds pretty squared away in my opinion. I mean it would be great to see the source material myself but he seemed to reference well enough and with actual quotations. Frankly, I have to agree that some wildfires have been started by illegal immigrants, not all of course just like he said, but some certainly.

So will you continue to doubt anything said by the right unless enough proof for you is presented or will you actually keep an even level of proof necessary to convince your little unbiased self of anything said by the left or right?
 
Maybe McRino is trying to use this so that he can later argue that if we granted Amnesty to illegals then illegals(although he would probably call them undocumented immigrants) would not need to make little campfires thus not causing any more fires.

Probably so, but in this day and age of dissecting every utterance into its smallest part so as to prove or disprove its veracity we can only go with what is presented at the moment.

j-mac
 
Probably so, but in this day and age of dissecting every utterance into its smallest part so as to prove or disprove its veracity we can only go with what is presented at the moment.

j-mac

If you Consider that McRIno tosses illegal alien salad just as much or more than Obama does, then it is too easy to speculate why illegals starting fires is even a issue to McRino.
 
If you Consider that McRIno tosses illegal alien salad just as much or more than Obama does, then it is too easy to speculate why illegals starting fires is even a issue to McRino.


Oh, I think you're correct, just saying that today, assuming in advance is only room for whomever to deny it later....Heck, some have speculated recently that McCain is doing this to consider throwing his own hat in the ring again. What a joke that would be eh?

Believe me, I don't care for him, or his sidekick Grahm who lives about 30 miles from me currently BTW. What a waste of a seat.

j-mac
 
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