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US troops coming home? Obama to say on Wednesday

Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

tl;dr the thread, but has anyone pointed out yet that, even with these withdrawals, that by the end of 2012 there will still be twice as many occupiers in Afghanistan as when he took office?
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

i don't know who said the UN was weak, but it surely wasn't me. it COULD be weak if american dollars werent propping it up.
are you actualy trying to imply that this libyan coalition force isn't a UN directive?

It is, but it isn't effecting any real results at the moment, now is it?
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

tl;dr the thread, but has anyone pointed out yet that, even with these withdrawals, that by the end of 2012 there will still be twice as many occupiers in Afghanistan as when he took office?

I was just going to say the same thing. Obama's policy toward Afghanistan/Pakistan has been nothing short of a total disaster. With Bin Laden dead, we don't even have any compelling reason to CARE about Afghanistan anymore. And our only concern with Pakistan should be making sure their nukes are secure...a task which isn't made any easier by Obama constantly undermining their government with drone strikes.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

Any real results in Libya or Afghanistan? People forget to mention the results we have achieved in Afghanistan since Obama's surge. The Taliban are pretty much thrown into pockets along the borders. With another year of concerted efforts to knock them out, we should be alright. Then it's time to go bye bye.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

This is why Obama should not reveal military plans

So we should be a top secret government? Dont we pay for this ****? Dont we have a right to know? Hell ever heard of a open gov?
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

So we should be a top secret government? Dont we pay for this ****? Dont we have a right to know? Hell ever heard of a open gov?

So Obama politics is more important than our troops lives?
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

Any real results in Libya or Afghanistan? People forget to mention the results we have achieved in Afghanistan since Obama's surge. The Taliban are pretty much thrown into pockets along the borders.

Who cares? How are the Taliban still remotely relevant to geopolitics?
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

So Obama politics is more important than our troops lives?

If Obama really cared about the troops' lives he'd withdraw them all as soon as logistically possible.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

Who cares? How are the Taliban still remotely relevant to geopolitics?

Because we do not want them to be able to reestablish a footing in Afghanistan.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

If Obama really cared about the troops' lives he'd withdraw them all as soon as logistically possible.

And let the 1500 lives be wasted 900 of which happened under Obama. Explain how Obama has had 900 deaths in 2 years and Bush had 600 in 7 years.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

If Obama really cared about the troops' lives he'd withdraw them all as soon as logistically possible.

so

just checking

...

You and Obama have difference of opinion on way forward in Afghanistan = Obama doesn't care about the troops' lives

?

And let the 1500 lives be wasted 900 of which happened under Obama. Explain how Obama has had 900 deaths in 2 years and Bush had 600 in 7 years.

Incredibly simple explanation, actually. Obama doubled the number of troops there in early 2009....and then added another 30,000 more.
 
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Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

So Obama politics is more important than our troops lives?

Like stated before earlier if Obama actually cared about lives he would pull out the troops ASAP, but then if i say that then you pull the "so those lives of already deceased soldiers would be wasted", well what i have to say to that is ever heard of the USSR or the US in Vietnam how did that mentality work out for us back then? Not very ****ing well. USSR kept on increasing troops. The Afghanistan population has proved to be an unconquerable population. The Afghanistan people did not pull off this 9/11 attack, Al Qaeda did which the Taliban were sheltering Bin Laden at the time and Al Qaeda and some Taliban have moved to Pakistan not Afghanistan, if we are really gonna chase these people around the world then we have a lot to work to go and a lot of countries to start invading. Hell the Taliban were our buddies leading up to the attack remember all those visits Taliban officials had to the US?
But anyways what i am saying unless we want this to turn into a disaster then keep up that nationalistic mentality you have!
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

so

just checking

...

You and Obama have difference of opinion on way forward in Afghanistan = Obama doesn't care about the troops' lives

?
No its kinda common sense. If someone or people are in harms way and you deeply care about them and if you had the power to get them out of that harms way then you would remove them from harms way.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

No its kinda common sense. If someone or people are in harms way and you deeply care about them and if you had the power to get them out of that harms way then you would remove them from harms way.

Nah, that's an incredibly simplistic way to look at it that doesn't match up with reality.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

Like stated before earlier if Obama actually cared about lives he would pull out the troops ASAP, but then if i say that then you pull the "so those lives of already deceased soldiers would be wasted", well what i have to say to that is ever heard of the USSR or the US in Vietnam how did that mentality work out for us back then? Not very ****ing well. USSR kept on increasing troops. The Afghanistan population has proved to be an unconquerable population. The Afghanistan people did not pull off this 9/11 attack, Al Qaeda did which the Taliban were sheltering Bin Laden at the time and Al Qaeda and some Taliban have moved to Pakistan not Afghanistan, if we are really gonna chase these people around the world then we have a lot to work to go and a lot of countries to start invading. Hell the Taliban were our buddies leading up to the attack remember all those visits Taliban officials had to the US?
But anyways what i am saying unless we want this to turn into a disaster then keep up that nationalistic mentality you have!

So 900 dead under Obama leadership is not a disaster? Obama never mentioned winning in his speech. I see this more as a political gimmick than a military plan.

If anything Obama should be putting more on the Pakistan border.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

So 900 dead under Obama leadership is not a disaster?
Never stated that or even leaned on stating that.
Yes i do see that as a disaster, and no way we are going to win this war or accomplish much than leave a corrupt, "democratic" regime behind.

Obama never mentioned winning in his speech.
Well were not going to be able to win...

I see this more as a political gimmick than a military plan.
I agree. But we should of never increased troops their in the first place.


If anything Obama should be putting more on the Pakistan border.

And do what? With these troops? Learn from history. Increasing troops in this region has never worked before.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

Never stated that or even leaned on stating that.
Yes i do see that as a disaster, and no way we are going to win this war or accomplish much than leave a corrupt, "democratic" regime behind.


Well were not going to be able to win...


I agree. But we should of never increased troops their in the first place.




And do what? With these troops? Learn from history. Increasing troops in this region has never worked before.

Funny thing is that is the same thing Durbin and Reid said about Iraq
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

We've challenged history demsocialist. We have seen great progress in Afghanistan.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

So 900 dead under Obama leadership is not a disaster? Obama never mentioned winning in his speech. I see this more as a political gimmick than a military plan.

If anything Obama should be putting more on the Pakistan border.

Winning what?
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

Talking about it publicly is stupid.

It's only stupid if your goal is to win the war and ensure American security. If your goal is to try to get a bump in political popularity, then talking about it (and making the decision that he did) is precisely the correct thing to do.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

We've challenged history demsocialist. We have seen great progress in Afghanistan.

that is correct - though it's not been nearly as reported on, we have seen amazing turn-arounds in Afghanistan. I sincerely hope that we are able to front-load out the support troop type units and replace them with contractors in order to protect those gains.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

Winning what?


hey folks, remember all those 2004/2006 protestations on the part of the left that they weren't anti-WoT, that they weren't just reflexively anti-US Security or Anti-War, or any of that because they were for the "right war" in Afghanistan?


yeah. all that? just words.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

that is correct - though it's not been nearly as reported on, we have seen amazing turn-arounds in Afghanistan. I sincerely hope that we are able to front-load out the support troop type units and replace them with contractors in order to protect those gains.

Mercs are fine with me. As long as they aren't fighting under an American banner I'll take em.

That said, we need to get rid of the troops that are serving in nation building capacity. We don't need to build afghani bridges and railroads and airports and increase their GDP growth. The number can be significantly dropped (from the current 100k) to around 50k, and we can protect the gains, train afghan forces, and mount an offensive to take control of border regions, which the Taliban for the most part control the whole Pakistani border.

And your last post I agree with totally. Where are all the other liberals now who said Iraq was stupid and that we belong in Afghanistan? No idea. Really just partisanship I guess. These are my liberal beliefs that we can finish the job with a smaller number of troops and take care of what needs to be done without risking security, and get out by the end of 2012 or 2013.
 
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Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

Mercs are fine with me. As long as they aren't fighting under an American banner I'll take em.

I was thinking more along the lines of the support troops that they are talking about pulling out first. It doesn't take a uniformed military member to pull a crate of supplies off a plane or a truck.

though towards the end of the surge in Iraq we did see some payoff with civilian-cop PTT teams; not sure how strong of a role they would have to play in more rural Afghanistan.

That said, we need to get rid of the troops that are serving in nation building capacity. We don't need to build afghani bridges and railroads and airports and increase their GDP growth.

yes...and no... if we want them to be able to supply themselves with security, then they also need to be able to pay for their security, on top of having the ability to get a significant enough percentage of the population to "buy in" to the new government. all that comes after establishing

The number can be significantly dropped (from the current 100k) to around 50k, and we can protect the gains, train afghan forces, and mount an offensive to take control of border regions, which the Taliban for the most part control the whole Pakistani border.

how? you need a larger number to train afghans than just training or school teams - you need co-located units capable of providing security until the Afghans can left-seat-right-seat. you can't control the border regions unless you inundate it with small units capable of interacting with the locals and providing constant security and denial. I just don't see 50K being sufficient for holding what we've gained, much less offense. Counterinsurgency is manpower intensive.

And your last post I agree with totally. Where are all the other liberals now who said Iraq was stupid and that we belong in Afghanistan? No idea. Really just partisanship I guess.

:( apparently so. The old paleo-Conservatives who used to oppose Iraq and Afghanistan used to tick me off no end because it felt like they were detracting from the effort, but at least they were principled when it came to standing up to their own side. I'm similarly disappointed with conservatives who have rushed to condemn the mission in Libya because it's a President with (D) after his name. American Foreign Policy should not be waged based on how it will help a particular political party in the next election.

These are my liberal beliefs that we can finish the job with a smaller number of troops and take care of what needs to be done without risking security, and get out by the end of 2012 or 2013.

out? no. they are nowhere near ready for us to be out. area-dependent we could probably be starting a general left-seat-right-seat campaign by then, but we would need to retain numbers and combined arms to guarantee security while doing so. you gotta crawl before you walk, and walk before you run; and the same is true of the Afghans.
 
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Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

I was thinking more along the lines of the support troops that they are talking about pulling out first. It doesn't take a uniformed military member to pull a crate of supplies off a plane or a truck.

though towards the end of the surge in Iraq we did see some payoff with civilian-cop PTT teams; not sure how strong of a role they would have to play in more rural Afghanistan.

Sure, but I also think that pulling supplies off of a truck can be dangerous in Afghanistan. I have no real hands on military experience, but I think that PMCs should be the ones there, not civilian volunteers. Those PMCs have a hell of a lot of training, probably more than the average infantryman over there tenfold.

As for the PTTs, I do think great benefit was seen in Iraq, but that was more with actually being hands on, training them in police stations on logistics, etc. I don't think that would really work in Afghanistan as you said simply because I doubt a "cop" over there is anything more than another uneducated, untrained, Afghani person.

yes...and no... if we want them to be able to supply themselves with security, then they also need to be able to pay for their security, on top of having the ability to get a significant enough percentage of the population to "buy in" to the new government. all that comes after establishing
Good point. I really can't argue that... especially the buy in to the new government part. But still though, we're talking about one of the poorest nations in the world, I mean how long do we have to risk American lives and spend our money to get them on their feet?
how? you need a larger number to train afghans than just training or school teams - you need co-located units capable of providing security until the Afghans can left-seat-right-seat. you can't control the border regions unless you inundate it with small units capable of interacting with the locals and providing constant security and denial. I just don't see 50K being sufficient for holding what we've gained, much less offense. Counterinsurgency is manpower intensive.
Are they really that bad that they can't even left seat once? With all the years that we've been there that just cannot be true. I've had even the dumbest, clumsiest new agents take the right seat within a month... can it really, really, be that bad with these Afghanis? I just don't see how a left/right seat policy cannot be already done over there. They have the most powerful nation in the world supplying and training them. What's wrong with a policy of focusing troops in the border regions, along with leaving a minority behind in already gained zones. It's not just the 100,000 US troops. We have Italians and Germans over there in gigantic numbers. Brits I believe have drawn down significantly.
:( apparently so. The old paleo-Conservatives who used to oppose Iraq and Afghanistan used to tick me off no end because it felt like they were detracting from the effort, but at least they were principled when it came to standing up to their own side. I'm similarly disappointed with conservatives who have rushed to condemn the mission in Libya because it's a President with (D) after his name. American Foreign Policy should not be waged based on how it will help a particular political party in the next election.
Right. It's not just the tea party either. We're seeing that with the entire House. Senate republicans who tend to be more older and willing to stick to their guns aren't going for it though.
 
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