Page 26 of 68 FirstFirst ... 16242526272836 ... LastLast
Results 251 to 260 of 671

Thread: US troops coming home? Obama to say on Wednesday

  1. #251
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,123

    Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    I hate to tell you....replacing the Afghan culture with something else is simply NOT achievable. This continued task would take a couple of generations and thousands of deaths and a tons of money.
    fortunately that's A) incorrect (culture can change quite rapidly in response to incentives and technological and political development) and B) not what we are trying to do. we are mostly trying to replace their system of government with an emphasis on their security forces.

  2. #252
    Sage
    ric27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Seen
    06-15-17 @ 02:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,539

    Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    fortunately that's A) incorrect (culture can change quite rapidly in response to incentives and technological and political development) and B) not what we are trying to do. we are mostly trying to replace their system of government with an emphasis on their security forces.
    Culturally and historically, the Afghan tribes will fight among themselves until they have a foreign enemy against which they will fight. Very similar to fighting among family members, but unity against an outsider.

    Unfortunately, among large numbers of the people we are seen not as liberators any longer, but as occupiers. In my opinion, this is due largely to the corruption and excesses of the Afghan government, Afghan army and the police

    We need friendly acquaintances, we don't need insignificant allies/buddies that we need to prop up, help with security, etc. Especially with Muslim countries, we shouldn't be in the business of nation building. Their culture is too foreign. Not that we can't understand it, its just that it is foreign to our way of doing things and unless you are willing to destroy that culture and rebuild it in our image, trying to graft on our way of doing things just hasn't been proven to work...

    From an economic/commercial standpoint, A-stan is located in one of the world's many assholes. They have no resources to speak of. They don't have agriculture. They don't have industry. They don't have any skills or knowledge that is of value to anyone else in the world. And they are land locked, which means everything they want to ship out and everything coming in has to pass through the hands of others.

    Opium??? .....since it has to be smuggled where ever it goes, you can't really consider it as a basis for a viable, growing national economy and middle class.

    The cold, hard fact is, not everyone is suited for a democratically based system of government. It is not compatible with their eons old tribal traditions, their lack of education, etc. Sure, there are plenty of people in Afghanistan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, etc. who have some education and want to see their people progress beyond a tribal stage and become an actual nation state that operates under a rule of law that applies to everyone. But the reality is, they are opposed by just as many people who will fight to stay where they are (and keep/get the power they want) and the vast majority of the population who are sheep. Just like here.

  3. #253
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada, Costa Rica
    Last Seen
    05-16-16 @ 09:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,645

    Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And he was right. I know nuance isn't liked by many who support imperialistic efforts, but nuance is required.
    So saying one thing during a campaign and then another after winning is now called nuance? Nuance is what makes the roses grow.

    "Afghanstan deserved more attention than Iraq. Bush dropped the ball going on the snipe hunt in Iraq, So, when Obama said in 2008 that the focus needed to be there, he was right, and I ageed. Obama was wrong later when he went with the surge and continued nation building. You may not understand this, but there are rarely only two options. The better focus would have been to simply keep viglent on those issues that concern us, like training camps and threats, leavng Afghanistan to the Afghan people.
    Then that could have been done much earlier and Obama could have been honest about it. But in any case Bush's Iraq seems to have don better than Obama's Afghanistan.

  4. #254
    Sage
    ric27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Seen
    06-15-17 @ 02:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,539

    Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post


    Then that could have been done much earlier and Obama could have been honest about it. But in any case Bush's Iraq seems to have don better than Obama's Afghanistan.
    We completely pull out of Iraq....Iraq falls. Propping up this people with money, arms, etc serves no useful purpose in the long run
    Last edited by ric27; 06-26-11 at 12:32 PM.

  5. #255
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,496

    Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    We completely pull out of Iraq....Iraq falls. Propping up this people with money, arms, etc serves no useful purpose in the long run
    That was the same school of thought in 1918.

  6. #256
    Sage
    ric27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Seen
    06-15-17 @ 02:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,539

    Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That was the same school of thought in 1918.
    If anyone thinks, the US can afford to do what was done at the end of WWII, economically and in terms of worldwide political capital, I think I have some swamp land in the Colombo-Panamanian border to sell ya

    I believe, as of this April, its waht $6.2/6.5 billion per month for ops in A-stan?? That's a lot of dough for a ****hole like A-stan...especially when your own country is in a financial mess

  7. #257
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,496

    Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    If anyone thinks, the US can afford to do what was done at the end of WWII, economically and in terms of worldwide political capital, I think I have some swamp land in the Colombo-Panamanian border to sell ya

    I believe, as of this April, its waht $6.2/6.5 billion per month for ops in A-stan?? That's a lot of dough for a ****hole like A-stan...especially when your own country is in a financial mess
    We can do it now, or we can do it again in ten years and in ten years, it will be twice the price.

  8. #258
    Sage
    ric27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Seen
    06-15-17 @ 02:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,539

    Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    We can do it now, or we can do it again in ten years and in ten years, it will be twice the price.
    Well, I believe treating or viewing the whole of A-stan as a homogeneous group was a potentially fatal mistake or flaw

    I'm sorry...there's reality, then there is fantasy. Trying to restructure a culture borders on the ridiculous.

    The fact is once the US leaves, Karzai will cease to exist, and it will all go to a **** fest real quick.

  9. #259
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada, Costa Rica
    Last Seen
    05-16-16 @ 09:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,645

    Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    We completely pull out of Iraq....Iraq falls. Propping up this people with money, arms, etc serves no useful purpose in the long run
    Why not? We did that in Europe and it turned out all right.

    At least over the short term.

    Japan might be a better example.

  10. #260
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,496

    Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Well, I believe treating or viewing the whole of A-stan as a homogeneous group was a potentially fatal mistake or flaw

    I'm sorry...there's reality, then there is fantasy. Trying to restructure a culture borders on the ridiculous.

    The fact is once the US leaves, Karzai will cease to exist, and it will all go to a **** fest real quick.
    I'm not going to argue in favor of the strategy used in Afghanistan, but you can put money on us going back in a few years.

Page 26 of 68 FirstFirst ... 16242526272836 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •