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Thread: Pawlenty's super-rich tax cuts

  1. #81
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    Re: Pawlenty's super-rich tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    By any reasonable assessment, the Pawlenty plan would significantly increase the federal budget deficits. I suspect that the campaign understands the math and fudged things by throwing out an absurd growth rate that would generate far more revenue than is likely. Recent economic history and the structural dynamics of the U.S. economy, including massive debt overhang, make such a sustained growth rate improbable. The dramatic increase in the nation's deficits, and the structural component associated with such tax cuts, would increase the risks of a U.S. debt crisis and push forward the timing for such an event.
    So in a partisan kind of way Pawlenty's trying to push the goverment into default?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Pawlenty's super-rich tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    So in a partisan kind of way Pawlenty's trying to push the goverment into default?
    I don't think he deliberately wants default. I suspect that his problem is that he doesn't see the big picture how tax revenues and federal expenditures fit together to determine the nation's annual surplus or, in this case, deficit. He has argued that the federal government should not raise the debt ceiling (in effect forcing it to immediately balance the budget) without offering specifics on what programs should be cut/eliminated to avoid default. He hasn't even suggested what he believes are essential services that should be carried out. In addition, he has argued for the balanced budget amendment, a gimmick that has failed at the state level, with the overwhelming number of states bound by such an amendment running up persistent deficits and piling up debt. In sum, if his campaign announcement and debate performance are representative, his is little more than a soundbite candidacy. Substance is lacking, and I suspect that the substance is lacking precisely because the numbers would not add up.

  3. #83
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    Re: Pawlenty's super-rich tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    let me rephrase...do you understand economic reality? we have to pay for what we need/want, and right now, we can't do that...how is cutting taxes again going to help pay for everything?
    Maybe "we" need to want less.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Pawlenty's super-rich tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    if you read on, he also wants to eliminate taxes on capital gains, interest income, dividends and estates...what the hell is he thinking?

    Hes jumping on the far right teaparty agenda....all for the rich and stick it to the working class...Im waiting patiently for a republican candidate to tell the teaparty to go suck wind

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    Re: Pawlenty's super-rich tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I don't think he deliberately wants default. I suspect that his problem is that he doesn't see the big picture how tax revenues and federal expenditures fit together to determine the nation's annual surplus or, in this case, deficit. He has argued that the federal government should not raise the debt ceiling (in effect forcing it to immediately balance the budget) without offering specifics on what programs should be cut/eliminated to avoid default. He hasn't even suggested what he believes are essential services that should be carried out. In addition, he has argued for the balanced budget amendment, a gimmick that has failed at the state level, with the overwhelming number of states bound by such an amendment running up persistent deficits and piling up debt. In sum, if his campaign announcement and debate performance are representative, his is little more than a soundbite candidacy. Substance is lacking, and I suspect that the substance is lacking precisely because the numbers would not add up.
    Raising the debt ceiling raises the debt, what's good about it? Some must think our debt isn't high enough yet. Talk about people wanting us to go into default, look at those who want to increase our debt.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Pawlenty's super-rich tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Hes jumping on the far right teaparty agenda....all for the rich and stick it to the working class...Im waiting patiently for a republican candidate to tell the teaparty to go suck wind

    The phraseology used in your lip pursing post here is illuminating as to where you actually stand politically.

    for instance, coupling the notion of getting back to basic constitutional principles of smaller Government, and less taxation for all leaves you using incorrectly the term "far right" to describe the T.axed E.nough A.lready party. And further when you speak of tax breaks going only to the so called "rich" you really display a real ignorance of marginal tax rates, and how in this country small businesses work, and operate. These people aren't rich, yet you and your ilk would decimate them in a rush to take their hard earned money.

    Now I ask, is that what the American dream is now? Work hard so you can give it to the Government to redistribute?

    I don't think so.


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    Re: Pawlenty's super-rich tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Raising the debt ceiling raises the debt, what's good about it? Some must think our debt isn't high enough yet. Talk about people wanting us to go into default, look at those who want to increase our debt.
    Raising the debt ceiling does authorize the federal government to take on additional debt. It reduces the immediate prospect of a self-inflicted crisis. It is not a substitute for fiscal consolidation.

    Ideally, its increase would come attached to a credible fiscal consolidation program (probably unlikely). Ultimately, the U.S. needs to get serious about fiscal consolidation. Among other things, credible fiscal consolidation will need to address the entitlement programs that are the key drivers of the nation's long-term fiscal imbalances. A key will be health care reform that tackles the excessive cost growth issue. Health expenditures cannot increase at a multiple of national income indefinitely. Health costs, particularly hospital and related services, cannot continue to increase at a multiple of inflation indefinitely. According to the IMF's latest projections, the net present value of U.S. health care spending between 2010-50 will increase 1.645 times as fast as the economy grows (highest in the world and nearly 30% faster than any other country), meaning such spending will absorb a growing share of national income/tax revenue. Those broader structural reforms will need to extend beyond the parameters of Medicare and Medicaid. As a result, they will almost certainly be controversial.

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    Re: Pawlenty's super-rich tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Raising the debt ceiling does authorize the federal government to take on additional debt. It reduces the immediate prospect of a self-inflicted crisis. It is not a substitute for fiscal consolidation.

    Ideally, its increase would come attached to a credible fiscal consolidation program (probably unlikely). Ultimately, the U.S. needs to get serious about fiscal consolidation. Among other things, credible fiscal consolidation will need to address the entitlement programs that are the key drivers of the nation's long-term fiscal imbalances. A key will be health care reform that tackles the excessive cost growth issue. Health expenditures cannot increase at a multiple of national income indefinitely. Health costs, particularly hospital and related services, cannot continue to increase at a multiple of inflation indefinitely. According to the IMF's latest projections, the net present value of U.S. health care spending between 2010-50 will increase 1.645 times as fast as the economy grows (highest in the world and nearly 30% faster than any other country), meaning such spending will absorb a growing share of national income/tax revenue. Those broader structural reforms will need to extend beyond the parameters of Medicare and Medicaid. As a result, they will almost certainly be controversial.

    Wow, ya think? We have in this country turned a blind eye to health care ever since 'insurance' stepped in because with that magic little card, our visits were free. No need to monitor what doc's were charging, or being charged. That coupled with fraud, and a willingness to not think of how baby boomers were going to effect the system until it is too late, are what's causing this squeeze. And proponents of Universal care think that by making it less accountable to the consumer are going to make it better?

    That just doesn't pass the smell test.

    j-mac
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    Re: Pawlenty's super-rich tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Wow, ya think? We have in this country turned a blind eye to health care ever since 'insurance' stepped in because with that magic little card, our visits were free. No need to monitor what doc's were charging, or being charged. That coupled with fraud, and a willingness to not think of how baby boomers were going to effect the system until it is too late, are what's causing this squeeze. And proponents of Universal care think that by making it less accountable to the consumer are going to make it better?

    That just doesn't pass the smell test.

    j-mac
    In my view, single-payer would not work in the U.S. It would come with all the disadvantages of a monopoly and it would be an attempt to create a new framework without addressing the structural problems responsible for today's health system failings.

    Robust reforms will need to be demand- and supply-based. On the demand side, changes that create a more consumer-oriented approach should be pursued. On the supply-side, barriers that limit the growth in the number of medical professionals and competition will need to be removed. Reforms will need to focus on outcomes (life expectancy, access to care, etc.) not tired alibis that disparities in outcomes should be ignored. The disparities in outcomes are real. They are important. Most importantly, they are a direct consequence of a structurally flawed, underperforming system in which costs are spiraling on an unsustainable path.

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    Re: Pawlenty's super-rich tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    In my view, single-payer would not work in the U.S. It would come with all the disadvantages of a monopoly and it would be an attempt to create a new framework without addressing the structural problems responsible for today's health system failings.
    Agreed, however even with the "failings" of the current system, we still have the best care in the world, UN propaganda aside.

    Robust reforms will need to be demand- and supply-based. On the demand side, changes that create a more consumer-oriented approach should be pursued. On the supply-side, barriers that limit the growth in the number of medical professionals and competition will need to be removed. Reforms will need to focus on outcomes (life expectancy, access to care, etc.) not tired alibis that disparities in outcomes should be ignored. The disparities in outcomes are real. They are important. Most importantly, they are a direct consequence of a structurally flawed, underperforming system in which costs are spiraling on an unsustainable path.
    As a person about to be on the other side of 50 next year, I for one hope that this look at outcomes doesn't lead to doing away with methods that can only be learned by application. If you are saying, and I am not assuming you are, but if you are saying that looking at outcomes means that taking that medical step to save the 72 year old isn't worth the cost of treatment, then I guess we have learned all we can medically because innovation stops there.

    j-mac
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