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Thread: Pawlenty's super-rich tax cuts

  1. #41
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    Re: Pawlenty's super-rich tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    No, I'm actually a true conservative. I actually don't believe the gov't has a greater right to your income than you do. Considering you're talking about taking money from someone that they have rightfully earned and the gov't hasn't, I'm all for any and all tax cuts. The gov't has been too bloated for too long. It's time to trim the fat, and that first comes in what you feed the cow.
    Ahh. More GOP Mantra.
    Tax cuts for the rich.
    ALL other Republican issues pale in comparison and... Fund Raising possibilities.

    So it's up to Pawlenty (and you) to propose the Draconian Spending cuts that would allow this Laughable proposal. Of course, designating Those cuts would eliminate him as a candidate.
    But "Free Money" always seems to work on our Stupid populace.

    At current levels, even if we cut spending by 1/3, (which isn't happening) there would Still be No Money for Tax cuts but Deficit money.
    (and try cutting Debt Service which is artificially low already due to QE low Interest rates)

    So let's here it from you and Pawlenty.
    50% Cuts of.... ??
    BEFORE any Tax cuts.
    Then I'll listen.
    No more one-side-of-the-ledger/supply-side tomfoolery.
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  2. #42
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    Re: Pawlenty's super-rich tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Yes, because only super rich people invest money, the middle class, they don't... no won't help them at all...
    I'm not claiming that the middle class doesn't invest. I'm only pointing out that the majority of income for the upper classes comes in the form of capital gains, so eliminating the capital gains tax means effectively eliminating their entire tax burden. Capital gains is income, and aside from adjustments for inflation, it should be taxed like income. If anything, it should be taxed more heavily than income from wages or dividends, because wages and dividends represent more productive economic activity.

    If we're going to cut taxes anywhere to improve the economy, it should be the corporate tax.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Class warfare is beneath you Viktyr
    It's not a matter of class warfare. I am advocating for these taxes in the hopes of one day paying them.

  3. #43
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    Re: Pawlenty's super-rich tax cuts

    [QUOTE=MrVicchio;1059581458]
    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post

    It's short sighted to say "We spend so ****ing much we have to keep borrowing, cut spending?" Your answer is to... borrow more?

    That's only what you think I'm saying, not what I'm actually saying.

    Go ahead, look it up, I have said repeatedly that the greatest threat to America is it's debt and long term fiscal imbalances.

    But because my beliefs are flexible, and adaptable to changing information and that little thing called reality, I understand that, that sudden and reactionary approach can only lead to disaster.

    A longer term solution is the only viable option... To do it your way would "balance the budget". But it would also tank the American economy, and the world economy.

    If you think 2008 was bad, you ain't seen NOTHING yet.

  4. #44
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    Re: Pawlenty's super-rich tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    There were no jobs, it's all a scam to enrich the super wealthy.



    *Maybe I'm just not in the mood to bother going and posting information you'll just say is bull**** anyway? I figure if I just mock your position it cuts to the chase.
    I take your mocking as your surrender on the issue...where is the sanity in further cutting taxes, when we can't afford what we are spending now? whenever tax cuts for the wealthy are mentioned, the conservative comeback has always been 'it will create jobs and stimulate the economy'...i asked a valid question, with bush tax cuts still in force, where are all the jobs that this should have created? why isnt the economy going great guns? conservatives/republicans have been screaming it from the mountaintops for years that tax cuts are the magical elixir for job creation and economic activity.

  5. #45
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    Re: Pawlenty's super-rich tax cuts

    [QUOTE=winston53660;1059581462]
    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post


    We could raise taxes. Ya know when the costs of production goes up for widgets usually widgets cost more.
    And drive away businesses and investments. That's a brilliant plan.

    And of course, you'd raise unemployment, which in turn would require MORE spending to cover... and what then? Raise taxes some more?


    I just don't get the mindset that when we're almost $15,000,000,000,000.00 in debt and climbing, looking at over $100,000,000,000,000.00 in unfunded liabilities for government social programs...

    The answer is "raise taxes".

    Taxes are a negative force in an economy. The higher they are, the less productivity you get in an area. That's just reality 101. Can you lower taxes too far? Sure you can, we're no where NEAR that point.

    We need, to aggressively cut taxes to spur economic growth, seriously cut spending in all areas, but specifically in Social Spending. (that would be some near 60% of the budget), and start to pay down this ridiculous debt we have.
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    Re: Pawlenty's super-rich tax cuts

    [QUOTE=MrVicchio;1059581477]
    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post

    And drive away businesses and investments. That's a brilliant plan.

    And of course, you'd raise unemployment, which in turn would require MORE spending to cover... and what then? Raise taxes some more?


    I just don't get the mindset that when we're almost $15,000,000,000,000.00 in debt and climbing, looking at over $100,000,000,000,000.00 in unfunded liabilities for government social programs...

    The answer is "raise taxes".

    Taxes are a negative force in an economy. The higher they are, the less productivity you get in an area. That's just reality 101. Can you lower taxes too far? Sure you can, we're no where NEAR that point.

    We need, to aggressively cut taxes to spur economic growth, seriously cut spending in all areas, but specifically in Social Spending. (that would be some near 60% of the budget), and start to pay down this ridiculous debt we have.
    i believe it has been shown, multiple times, in multiple threads, that taxes are at a historical low right now.

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    Re: Pawlenty's super-rich tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    I take your mocking as your surrender on the issue...where is the sanity in further cutting taxes, when we can't afford what we are spending now?
    You can take it how you want, you will anyways. The sanity is on increased private sector economic activity = increased tax revenues. Higher taxes depress economic activity = lower revenues.

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    whenever tax cuts for the wealthy are mentioned, the conservative comeback has always been 'it will create jobs and stimulate the economy'...i asked a valid question, with bush tax cuts still in force, where are all the jobs that this should have created? why isnt the economy going great guns? conservatives/republicans have been screaming it from the mountaintops for years that tax cuts are the magical elixir for job creation and economic activity.
    Because your question is frankly.. stupid. It's predicated on the only economic factor is "the bush tax cuts" and ignores everything that has occurred since then. When you are ready to be honest about the situation you're in I'm here to discuss the issue. So far you've proven that you are not a serious debater.

    You refuse to address the 2008 economic collapse, the over spending that has the markets on edge, higher taxes and regulations being proposed and enacted by Obama and Co. , Obamacare...

    These are factors that are causing those with money (ya know, the ones that create jobs..) to hold back, credit is highly restricted atm for example. You ignore all that because you know the answer, if oyu tax people with money MORE they'll be less likely to invest in small businesses, to invest in stocks, the lifeblood of corporations.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Pawlenty's super-rich tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    You can take it how you want, you will anyways. The sanity is on increased private sector economic activity = increased tax revenues. Higher taxes depress economic activity = lower revenues.



    Because your question is frankly.. stupid. It's predicated on the only economic factor is "the bush tax cuts" and ignores everything that has occurred since then. When you are ready to be honest about the situation you're in I'm here to discuss the issue. So far you've proven that you are not a serious debater.

    You refuse to address the 2008 economic collapse, the over spending that has the markets on edge, higher taxes and regulations being proposed and enacted by Obama and Co. , Obamacare...

    These are factors that are causing those with money (ya know, the ones that create jobs..) to hold back, credit is highly restricted atm for example. You ignore all that because you know the answer, if oyu tax people with money MORE they'll be less likely to invest in small businesses, to invest in stocks, the lifeblood of corporations.
    bull, tax cuts are supposed to be magical cure alls...will cure what ails ya...the republican answer for everything is 'more tax cuts'....you don't want to address that this strategy has FAILED..this strategy is akin to old school medicine...using leeches to 'bleed' a patient, instead of draining blood, you drain revenue. i don't remember ever hearing that this style of medicine was overly successful. as for your 'if you tax people with money' line, no, i don't buy this, people with money will invest regardless, they did back in the early 20th century when the upper tax bracket was 90%...those with money will invest with the goal of making even more money, regardless of the tax rate.

    as stated, tax rates are already at historic lows in this country.

  9. #49
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    Re: Pawlenty's super-rich tax cuts

    But lowering taxes is always good and raising taxes is always bad.

    Even a temporary tax cut has to be permanent, because letting that tax cut expire would be raising taxes.
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  10. #50
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    Re: Pawlenty's super-rich tax cuts

    [QUOTE=Jetboogieman;1059581471]
    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post

    That's only what you think I'm saying, not what I'm actually saying.

    Go ahead, look it up, I have said repeatedly that the greatest threat to America is it's debt and long term fiscal imbalances.

    But because my beliefs are flexible, and adaptable to changing information and that little thing called reality, I understand that, that sudden and reactionary approach can only lead to disaster.

    A longer term solution is the only viable option... To do it your way would "balance the budget". But it would also tank the American economy, and the world economy.

    If you think 2008 was bad, you ain't seen NOTHING yet.
    And what do you base this on? This "Disaster" on? Hmm?

    you're no where near as flexible as you think you are.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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