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“Why Aren’t You Speaking English?”

MistressNomad said:
I gotta disagree, playdrive.

I won't even go to foreign countries as a TOURIST if I don't speak at least a little of their language. It's rude. I don't go to other people's countries and tell them to speak my language. And if I did, the people of that country would be justified in calling me rude - in their native tongue, at that.

Belgium has 3 official languages, and I learned a bit of all of them before I went just to be safe. I didn't learn a ton, but enough that I could get around, ask for food, help, directions, etc, and at least show them I was trying. And I wasn't even living there - I was just passing through. It's courtesy.

And just to be clear, I am not a language guru. I'm actually terrible at learning new languages, and I've forgotten everything I learned except a bit of German, since it's the most similar to English. But I made the effort, because I try to be polite.

To me, it's even the same of different versions of English. When I was working in New Zealand, I wrote my CV using THEIR spellings and replacement words ("flat" instead of "apartment" and the like). Because I'm in THEIR country. And while it may be spelled "color" where I'm from, it's "colour" in New Zealand and the American spelling is wrong. If I'm going to live in their country and ask their employers to hire me, I am not going to expect them to make exceptions for me. They were nice enough to let me live in their country.

And while it may be true we don't legally have an "official" language, everyone knows we speak English. Japan doesn't have an "official" language either, but don't try to tell me you'd go to Japan and expect them to speak English, or Spanish for that matter. My grandmother moved to this country as an adult, and while her English may not be great, she did learn it, because she is living in an English-speaking country.

Speak whatever language you want to your friends and family. But if you want to function in our society, yeah, you have to speak English. What's so terrible about that? :shrug:
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You said you learned a little bit of the three languages of Belgium.

What if you were arrested for a crime you didn't commit while you were there? Would you feel comfortable speaking Flemish (or French, or Dutch) - or would you prefer a translator?

There is a difference between knowing enough to get by and testifying before congress or testifying to save your hide.
 
theplaydrive said:
It's more symbolic than anything since making all government business in English wouldn't significantly affect the population. The same patterns of learning English would exist in the United States. It would not significantly affect any aspect of the United States.
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Not at the moment, but when 50% of the population is speaking Spanish.....it may become an issue. One that could be avoided.

edit: i also don't know that it would make this thread moot since it was ultimately conducted it English
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Sure, because the stunt that started this thread wouldn't have happened.
 
mac said:
Not at the moment, but when 50% of the population is speaking Spanish.....it may become an issue. One that could be avoided.
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I don't think anything like that would ever happen since 2nd generations always learn English because English is the language of money and popular culture.

Sure, because the stunt that started this thread wouldn't have happened.
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I think it depends on the laws because having an English translator still means it's conducted in English just like having an English translator for a deaf speaker would keep it in English.
 
theplaydrive said:
I don't think anything like that would ever happen since 2nd generations always learn English because English is the language of money and popular culture.
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They do now and have historically. Mostly due to lack of accommodation of other languages. Why would that continue if there were no need to learn English?

I think it depends on the laws because having an English translator still means it's conducted in English just like having an English translator for a deaf speaker would keep it in English.
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Who does this serve? To become a citizen one must demonstrate working knowledge of English.....so, allowing testimony and such in govt proceedings benefits whom?
 
mac said:
They do now and have historically. Mostly due to lack of accommodation of other languages. Why would that continue if there were no need to learn English?
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Nearly all Hispanic adults born in the United States of immigrant parents report they are fluent in English. By contrast, only a small minority of their parents describe themselves as skilled English speakers. However, fully 88% of their U.S.-born adult children report that they speak English very well. Among later generations of Hispanic adults, the figure rises to 94%. Reading ability in English shows a similar trend.

As fluency in English increases across generations, so, too, does the regular use of English by Hispanics, both at home and at work. For most immigrants, English is not the primary language they use in either setting. But for their grown children, it is.

English Usage among Hispanics in the United States - Pew Research Center
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We don't have anything worry about.

Who does this serve? To become a citizen one must demonstrate working knowledge of English.....so, allowing testimony and such in govt proceedings benefits whom?
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It benefits people who feel more comfortable speaking their first language - who still have a working knowledge of English.
 
theplaydrive said:
It benefits people who feel more comfortable speaking their first language - who still have a working knowledge of English.
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Well, we all know the worth of anecdotal evidence, but i can tell you from first hand experience, nearly all Spanish speaking New Yorkers speak Spanish at home. You're basing your opinion on what is happening now, not what will happen when Spanish speakers equate to 50% or more of the population and increased use of Spanish becomes common. Personally, I don't care which is "official" but one should be.

I think we'll just have to disagree on the use in govt proceedings. I think our divisive govt is divisive enough as it is.
 
mac said:
Well, we all know the worth of anecdotal evidence, but i can tell you from first hand experience, nearly all Spanish speaking New Yorkers speak Spanish at home. You're basing your opinion on what is happening now, not what will happen when Spanish speakers equate to 50% or more of the population and increased use of Spanish becomes common. Personally, I don't care which is "official" but one should be.

I think we'll just have to disagree on the use in govt proceedings. I think our divisive govt is divisive enough as it is.
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I know they speak Spanish at home, same with a lot of people with immigrant parents or grandparents of many languages, but the only thing I have to go on is numbers and when American popular culture is English based and money around the world is English based, I'm putting my faith in the fact that people will continue to learn English.
 
theplaydrive said:
I know they speak Spanish at home, same with a lot of people with immigrant parents or grandparents of many languages, but the only thing I have to go on is numbers and when American popular culture is English based and money around the world is English based, I'm putting my faith in the fact that people will continue to learn English.
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Faith, huh?
 
mac said:
For starters, it's illegal to speak anything other than English aboard a united states ship, and on military reservations/bases. It's illegal in many state buildings as well.

Though none of this may be applicable in this case, it illustrates that lack of an official language, and free speech, doesn't necessarily make a defense for attempting to speak in spanish during a us govt proceeding.
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Gee, that's funny... not only did I speak French with shipmates in Basic as well as on base, I translated on several ship boardings. No one ever complained that we were speaking French...
 
FilmFestGuy said:
What if you were arrested for a crime you didn't commit while you were there? Would you feel comfortable speaking Flemish (or French, or Dutch) - or would you prefer a translator?
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For the record, the official languages are Flemish (which is a dialect of Dutch), Waloons (a dialect of French) and German...
 
ludahai said:
Would you care to cite an example? I wouldn't want to speak Mandarin with my wife on our next trip to the States and get put into jail for it...
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You can speak all the Mandarin you wish...expect alot of confused faces, and you having to couple your speech with alot of finger pointing, and hand gestures.....

j-mac
 
ludahai said:
Would you care to cite an example? I wouldn't want to speak Mandarin with my wife on our next trip to the States and get put into jail for it...
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Well, unless you plan on touring a Military base or something like that, I think you'll be ok :)
 
ludahai said:
Gee, that's funny... not only did I speak French with shipmates in Basic as well as on base, I translated on several ship boardings. No one ever complained that we were speaking French...
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Were you a US Navy sailor serving on a US ship?
 
theplaydrive said:
i don't think it's inappropriate for them to speak German, it just think it's weird and stupid since German isn't a particularly popular language. i wouldn't be offended by it though.
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So popularity is your criterion? How convenient, it makes a great excuse for you to think speaking German is stupid, but speaking Spanish is not.
 
American said:
So popularity is your criterion? How convenient, it makes a great excuse for you to think speaking German is stupid, but speaking Spanish is not.
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Criterion for what?
 
mac said:
Naivete, maybe?
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What's naive about looking at past trends in language learning and applying them to the future? If second generations have consistently learned English and if English continues to be the language of popular culture and money, how is it naive to think the pattern will continue?
 
theplaydrive said:
What's naive about looking at past trends in language learning and applying them to the future? If second generations have consistently learned English and if English continues to be the language of popular culture and money, how is it naive to think the pattern will continue?
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Because political correctness abounds.

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Because political correctness abounds.

j-mac
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What does that have to do with the fact that 88% of 2nd generation and 94% of 3rd generation Americans speak English well? Explain to me how thinking that pattern will continue is naive considering that English is still the language of popular culture and money.
 
theplaydrive said:
What does that have to do with the fact that 88% of 2nd generation and 94% of 3rd generation Americans speak English well? Explain to me how thinking that pattern will continue is naive considering that English is still the language of popular culture and money.
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Because the tide on that is currently being undermined in education, especially in the West, and South...Heck some jobs in these areas require you to be bilingual to get the job, and they are the high paying jobs either.

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Because the tide on that is currently being undermined in education, especially in the West, and South...Heck some jobs in these areas require you to be bilingual to get the job, and they are the high paying jobs either.

j-mac
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So the market place is deciding that being bilingual is needed. God bless the market, right? :coffeepap
 
j-mac said:
Because the tide on that is currently being undermined in education, especially in the West, and South...Heck some jobs in these areas require you to be bilingual to get the job, and they are the high paying jobs either.

j-mac
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This has nothing to do with political correctness - this has to do with the market and businesses wanting to cater to a certain population for money. Moreover, none of this suggests English is in danger - college requires English and high paying jobs require English. And again, popular culture is primarily English and young people always want to be a part of that. Let's not also forget that education is in English.
 
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