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Thread: 10 U.S. lawmakers sue Obama over Libya strikes

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    Re: 10 U.S. lawmakers sue Obama over Libya strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The highest court was created in part to get in the midle of an argument between the President and Congress. Congress has ceded too much of its power and destroyed the checks and balances which are meant to be in place, particularly where the military is concerned. I damned well hope that more lawmakers join in and that we put the proper restraints on the power of the President. The President is 1 guy, he wasn't meant to have all the power. It needs to be handled and this has to result in lessening the Presidents power to use our military any way he sees fit.
    Very good point. However, history of the Supreme Court in dealing with issues concerning US military involvement shows the Court avoids them. They would prefer for Congress and the President to work it out. I completely agree that Congress has seeded entirely too much of its power and made essentially made the checks and balances meaningless.

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    Re: 10 U.S. lawmakers sue Obama over Libya strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    I would completely agree with that assessment. Of course, that brings up the question of what is 'war'? Frankly, President Obama's claim that there are no 'hostilities' in Libya is a bald faced lie. And the same people who defend him are the ones who accuse G.W. Bush of lying, without knowing, apparently, what the verb (or noun) 'lie' truly means in English.
    I defend the Libya action and I believe that Bush relied on faulty intelligence and truly believed that their were WMD stockpiles in Iraq, I don't believe he intended to deceive the American public.

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    Re: 10 U.S. lawmakers sue Obama over Libya strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Time Lord View Post
    I defend the Libya action
    Why? What is our national interest?

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    Re: 10 U.S. lawmakers sue Obama over Libya strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Time Lord View Post
    I defend the Libya action and I believe that Bush relied on faulty intelligence and truly believed that their were WMD stockpiles in Iraq, I don't believe he intended to deceive the American public.
    I actually largely agree with the current action in Libya, but my devotion to the rule of law and the Constitution trumps that and in a few hours, Obama will be in technical violation of both.
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    Re: 10 U.S. lawmakers sue Obama over Libya strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    I actually largely agree with the current action in Libya,
    Why? What is our goal? How is the achievement of that goal in our national interest? Does the goal have a reasonable chance of accomplishment? What measures should we use to determine if we are on track to succeed or to fail?

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    Re: 10 U.S. lawmakers sue Obama over Libya strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    I actually largely agree with the current action in Libya, but my devotion to the rule of law and the Constitution trumps that and in a few hours, Obama will be in technical violation of both.
    Only if you believe that he is violating the constitution and the war power act with what he has been doing in the Lybian effort about 1 week after it started. I'm not sure if direct NATO support such as providing refueling stations, intel, etc while not asking congress is either a violation of the war power act nor the constitution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Why? What is our national interest?
    Direct national interests aren't always the only thing thats important when making a decision. Things like ideals come to mind.
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    Re: 10 U.S. lawmakers sue Obama over Libya strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Direct national interests aren't always the only thing thats important when making a decision. Things like ideals come to mind.
    Then I want my money back. The Constitution does not say it is okay to wage a war of choice if you can wave your hand in just the right way as you claim it is for "ideals".

    Show me where I am wrong.

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    Re: 10 U.S. lawmakers sue Obama over Libya strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Why? What is our goal? How is the achievement of that goal in our national interest? Does the goal have a reasonable chance of accomplishment? What measures should we use to determine if we are on track to succeed or to fail?
    1. Ask Obama what HIS goal is, but if it protects civilians from a brutal dictator, especially one that was a thorn in the side of the U.S., that is a benefit. Frankly, we should have shot him up back in the 80s.
    2. Chance of accomplishment depends on the goal. If it is to protect civilians, that has already happened. If it is to overthrow Wacky Quaddafi, that would likely need more work.

    However, having said that, as Obama did not follow legal and Constitutional procedures, that trumps whether or not I agree in the policy.
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    Re: 10 U.S. lawmakers sue Obama over Libya strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Then I want my money back. The Constitution does not say it is okay to wage a war of choice if you can wave your hand in just the right way as you claim it is for "ideals".

    Show me where I am wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    1. Ask Obama what HIS goal is, but if it protects civilians from a brutal dictator, especially one that was a thorn in the side of the U.S., that is a benefit. Frankly, we should have shot him up back in the 80s.
    2. Chance of accomplishment depends on the goal. If it is to protect civilians, that has already happened. If it is to overthrow Wacky Quaddafi, that would likely need more work.

    However, having said that, as Obama did not follow legal and Constitutional procedures, that trumps whether or not I agree in the policy.
    Tell me how offering NATO support, i.e. fueling stations, is not following the constitution.
    Last edited by xpiher; 06-19-11 at 04:03 AM.
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    Re: 10 U.S. lawmakers sue Obama over Libya strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by ItsAProcess View Post
    "Weapons of Mass Destruction"

    UN, NATO: None of that here!

    Bush: Yes there is, WAAAARRRRR.

    That's a lie.

    Bush: Hmm, no WMD. Well, They're linked to Osama Bin Laden!

    UN, NATO, U.S. Intelligence Agencies: No they're not.

    Bush: YES THEY ARE, WAAAAARRRR.

    That's a lie.

    Bush lied, he got his war. It cost thousands upon thousands of lives and did almost no effing good whatsoever.



    Yup. That's correct.
    So...you just lied then. Right?

    1-Iraq refused to comply with 17 UN resolutions mandating full disclosure on the disposition of their WMD programs. Not 1, not 2, 17 UN resolutions. Every intel agency, every democrat congressman, EVERYONE believed that he posessed WMDs. Many point to the undeniable fact that he had been developing WMDs for 30 years and that the US sold him tons of biological spores that REMAIN unaccounted for. Bush did not lie...he spoke the same truth as did Clinton and every elected democrat.

    2-It was not ties to Bin Laden that indicted Hussein and led to the attack...it was 'ties to global terrorism"...again...another absolute fact

    3-Clinton (and Obama during the Lybian involvement) cited only Bush's third primary reason for attacking Iraq...that is...genocide. That Hussein was a murderous tyrant is undeniable. Democrats support war to end genocide when it is a democrat president.

    Your pants are on fire...

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