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Thread: 10 U.S. lawmakers sue Obama over Libya strikes

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    Re: 10 U.S. lawmakers sue Obama over Libya strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Sorry, but I don't want to put the fate of the nation's security in the hands of Congress.
    Well I don't want a king, so it looks like we're at odds. Congress writes the laws and sets the budget and is supposed to have the most power of all the branches of government. This is just its check on the Presidents power to ensure proper usage of the military. I don't want to put the fate of the nation's security in the hands of one man.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: 10 U.S. lawmakers sue Obama over Libya strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    And on that thought, if you think about it, lets say......Iran began bombing our cities. (I know it won't happen, but stay with me) Would we consider a country that was aiding Iran by providing them logistical support to be at war with us? Would bombing our cities be considered a "hostile action" or a flat out war? It's war, plain and simple. I support stopping Daffy duck. But I want his head. Go after him. Stop pussy footing around and get this son of a bitch. Then end the conflict.

    But we are definitely at war. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....
    I agree that it would be seen as an act of war, but I just don't think these actions require congress approvals since they already approved of supporting NATO in its mission and we don't have boots on the ground and aren't leading the bombing campaign.


    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Libya is just a side show. Perhaps the one term president really is pro-Islamofascist. I cannot tell at this point. But why else help the rebels?
    The more democracies in the middle east the better.


    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    No. But once congress pushes him on the issue, he then has to abide by the laws set forth. Congressional pushback is them asserting their ability to oversee Presidential decisions and revoke them if they step into congressional power boundaries. Its not pretty, but our form of government is rarely pretty or neat.
    I know what congress is doing (I think the lawsuit is over board) and I commend it. I just think the presidents argument would win in court. Lets hope it doesn't make it to that point.
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    Re: 10 U.S. lawmakers sue Obama over Libya strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    The more democracies in the middle east the better.
    Unlike Tunisia and Egypt, where I believe the situation exists for a resonable chance for working democracies, what makes you think that this is even a possibility in Libya? On the one hand, Khaddafy is an unstable monster who has to go, but on the other hand, I don't hold out much hope of a working democracy taking his place.
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    Re: 10 U.S. lawmakers sue Obama over Libya strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post




    The more democracies in the middle east the better.
    You are taking the flawed position that everyone can be democratic. That they want to be democratic and they will be better off with a democratic form of government.

    A 12th century tribal Arabic culture is not compatible with modern democracy. Islam exclusionism is not compatible with the human rights and tolerance inherent in a democratic society.

    In this day and age, "radical" Islam, or as I think is more accurate, *fundamental* Islam is on the rise. I think it more likely that they will seize control of the revolutions as the Bolsheviks seized the Russian revolution in 1917.

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    Re: 10 U.S. lawmakers sue Obama over Libya strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Well I don't want a king, so it looks like we're at odds. Congress writes the laws and sets the budget and is supposed to have the most power of all the branches of government. This is just its check on the Presidents power to ensure proper usage of the military.
    No, it's not. The three branches are supposed to be co-equal.

    I don't want to put the fate of the nation's security in the hands of one man.
    I don't want to put the nation's security in the hands of 300 clowns that can't even agree on what color the carpet should be.

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    Re: 10 U.S. lawmakers sue Obama over Libya strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    10 U.S. lawmakers sue Obama over Libya strikes - CBS News



    This will go exactly nowhere. Even the highest court has proven to be extremely reluctant to get in the middle of an argument between the President and Congress.
    Congress doesn't have the ball to cut funding.
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    Re: 10 U.S. lawmakers sue Obama over Libya strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    No, it's not. The three branches are supposed to be co-equal.
    No, they're supposed to be at odds with each other. Congress, which holds power of legislation and purse and composed of the most people chosen to represent State and People is to be the strongest branch. The President enforces the laws Congress passes. The Courts keep both in check. Power was not meant to be consolidated in any one man or body, which is why there are 3. However, Congress is supposed to have the most power.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I don't want to put the nation's security in the hands of 300 clowns that can't even agree on what color the carpet should be.
    That's the point. They'll agree when it's necessary to agree and not before that. It ensures proper use of our military. 300 clowns who have to agree by majority is better than 1 clown with all the power. Statistically speaking, the 300 should fair better than the 1.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: 10 U.S. lawmakers sue Obama over Libya strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    In this day and age, "radical" Islam, or as I think is more accurate, *fundamental* Islam is on the rise. I think it more likely that they will seize control of the revolutions as the Bolsheviks seized the Russian revolution in 1917.
    I disagree. The Arab spring is anti-fundamentalist.
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    Re: 10 U.S. lawmakers sue Obama over Libya strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Originally Posted by Misterveritis
    Libya is just a side show. Perhaps the one term president really is pro-Islamofascist. I cannot tell at this point. But why else help the rebels?
    The more democracies in the middle east the better.
    True. Do you think the rebels are likely to create a democracy? I do not see it.

  10. #110
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    Re: 10 U.S. lawmakers sue Obama over Libya strikes

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    I disagree. The Arab spring is anti-fundamentalist.
    Sectarian violence within a religion is probably some of the worst and the hatreds and and violence last the longest. In addition to the Shia-Sunni sects of Islam, you can look at Roman Catholic v. Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic v. Protestant. Taking a look very briefly at Christian nations in comparison to the Muslim nations, we went through our sectarian violence quite a long time ago for the most part, and we went through them relatively quickly.

    Roman Catholic v. Eastern Orthodox never really got into a religious war. I think it was the 5th Crusade that decided to sack Byzantium instead of going all the way to Jerusalem, but that was probably commercial as much as religious. Catholic v. Protestant peaked with the 30 years war and then pretty much died out except with the Spanish. The Inquisition and their wars with England kept it alive for awhile, but really pretty localized. You can look at Catholic v. Protestant in N. Ireland, but that was merely one aspect of Irish opposition to English occupation and it never spread or was reflected anywhere else where Catholics and Protestants were mixed.

    In comparison, the Shia - Sunni split occurred what, less than 100 years after the founding of the religion and the tensions still remain. Mixed with that is the fact that the Arab world is still strongly tribal and clan/family oriented and in many ways, artificially national. I say artificial because Europeans created the national boundaries and that really helped **** things up. Boundaries were first created based on colonial boundaries, and then the political concerns following WWII. Britain pretty much drew up the ME boundaries and they did it without a strong understanding of the tribal boundaries and areas. Then to reward the Arabs who had helped them against the Turks, they took Arabs out of the Arabian peninsula and made them Kings in Jordan (Trans-Jordan), Iraq, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.

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