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Defense Secretary Warns NATO of ‘Dim’ Future

donsutherland1

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From today's edition of The New York Times:

Perhaps most significantly, Mr. Gates issued a dire warning that the United States, exhausted by a decade of war and dreading its own mounting budget deficits, simply may not see NATO as worth supporting any longer.

“The blunt reality is that there will be dwindling appetite and patience in the U.S. Congress — and in the American body politic writ large — to expend increasingly precious funds on behalf of nations that are apparently unwilling to devote the necessary resources or make the necessary changes to be serious and capable partners in their own defense,” Mr. Gates said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/11/world/europe/11gates.html

IMO, this is an important speech. Secretary Gates sees and understands the big picture. Recognizing the magnitude and urgency of the challenges facing NATO, he did not evade addressing the tough issues.

A number of large trends are underway:

1. The U.S. and Europe have emerged from a financial crisis/severe recession that marked the most seminal event of the 2000s to date. The advanced nations were already facing looming fiscal imbalances, and the financial crisis/severe recession exacerbated those imbalances and made the timeframe for credible fiscal consolidation more urgent (leaving less time and room for transition).

2. An era of fiscal consolidation/austerity is now imminent. In parts of Western Europe, that era is now in its early stages.

3. Once fiscal consolidation spreads to the U.S., defense expenditures will not be immune to any credible fiscal consolidation strategy. The Pentagon, like any other government agency, will be asked to rationalize its expenditures in a way it has not had to, achieve greater results per dollar of expenditures, and to become more focused. Secretary of Gates has already begun early efforts in that direction.

4. In a bid to avoid deeper cuts to social welfare spending or greater tax hikes than would otherwise be the case, nations facing severe fiscal challenges have often refocused domestically. They have reduced overseas commitments, shrunk their ambitions and horizons, etc.

5. A retreat from international commitments can have an adverse impact on the balance of power. The equilibrium can shift more in favor of radical or hostile elements. Hence, security risks can increase. The danger that nations wind up abandoning more critical interests is real. Yet, in a quirk of psychology, some can be tempted to adopt the false assumption that non-interventionism/soft isolationism can effectively substitute for a decline in their relative or even absolute power. In other words, 'if we pretend the threat does not exist and act as if it doesn't exist, then the threat won't confront us.' Few approaches could be more short-sighted. The run-up to WW II proved just how disastrously wrong that assumption was in the face of a balance of power that rapidly shifted in favor of Nazi Germany.

Against that context, Secretary Gates is right to be concerned about the future of NATO should all NATO members not step up their contributions to the alliance. If NATO is increasingly perceived as weakening or ineffectual, its security credibility will wane. IMO, NATO's going beyond its founding principle to engage in regime change in peripheral situations such as Libya's civil war is a problem. It drains resources. It exposes limitations. It changes the calculations of hostile states.

One cannot help but notice that Iran has now announced that it will be tripling the production of enriched uranium and shifting that production to its underground facility at Fordow. Syria has ignored all pleas for it to refrain from brutally quashing its political opposition. North Korea has again rattled the saber, threatening South Korea. The Taliban has shown little commitment for power-sharing in Afghanistan, as it perceives a battlefield situation that still leaves it opportunity to pursue a less constrained course aimed at regaining control of Afghanistan.

Actual weakness or perceptions of weakness create problems. Secretary Gates recognizes that real problems exist. He raises the issue now, as the problems can still be addressed. Down the road, it will be more difficult to do so, especially if austerity becomes even more urgent should the U.S. largely delay credible fiscal consolidation.

Henry Kissinger once observed the importance of acting early, even when challenges are ambiguous. He declared:

Our security is not self-ensuring; our preferences do not automatically prevail; our interests and values require vigilance and effort if they are to survive. Indeed, as the world becomes more complex, our safety and well-being require more commitment at an early stage if the challenges are not to grow overwhelming. When the scope for action is greatest, the challenge is bound to be ambiguous. When the nature of the problem becomes unambiguously clear, the scope for creative action may well have disappeared. The task of statesmanship is to attempt to shape events according to a vision of the future, with the moral fortitude to act boldly when even consensus and certainty are often unattainable.

Today's speech by Secretary Gates was a call for just such action. It was blunt, but exactly what needed to be said.
 
I agree with Gates on this because "NATO" is usually code for "let the US handle it by themselves."
 
For those who are interested, the transcript of Secretary Gates' speech has now been posted on the Department of Defense website. The transcript can be found at:

Defense.gov Speech:
 
Does not matter if you are talking about NATO or the UN the US usually has the leadership to handle these situations this is not the case with Obama as president.
 
The threat of the combined power of NATO I believe has helped keep a lid on several potential hot spots in Europe and the Middle East and if NATO were to crumble it might create an atmosphere where trouble could break out.

NATO has been in decline and has lacked needed commitment for some time, and I don't think Obama is the leader needed to pull them together to a renewed dedication to the principles it was formed to enforce.
 
I believe in NATO, and the wider US-Europe alliance, its done a lot since the defeat of Nazi Germany and the containment of the USSR, but in recent times Europe has become a bit complacent and I think the US needs to substantially lean on Europe to take a larger role again, even if it rubs some of them the wrong way. A good way of doing it may even to start bring troops and funding back home, its effect are more real than a strong worded letter and it forces the host country to step up or do without that defense.
 
Henry Kissinger once observed the importance of acting early, even when challenges are ambiguous. He declared:

Our security is not self-ensuring; our preferences do not automatically prevail; our interests and values require vigilance and effort if they are to survive. Indeed, as the world becomes more complex, our safety and well-being require more commitment at an early stage if the challenges are not to grow overwhelming. When the scope for action is greatest, the challenge is bound to be ambiguous. When the nature of the problem becomes unambiguously clear, the scope for creative action may well have disappeared. The task of statesmanship is to attempt to shape events according to a vision of the future, with the moral fortitude to act boldly when even consensus and certainty are often unattainable.

Kissinger is right but there is also of a generation of people out there who don't seem to realize that there are dangerous and organized people out there who could do harm to the democracies. I doubt Western Europe is prepared to meet any major challenges and in fact there seems to be a malaise entering all the democracies.

People always seem to believe that things can only get better, that there is the only direction the world can take, and are not psychologically prepared for an economic downturn or a threat to the security of their nation.

Gates, I feel is correct about NATO, and much worse could be said of the corrupt UN. There should have been something in the form of the Anglosphere organized many years ago where only free and democratic nations could join, and each would share equally in their defense.

Anglosphere Primer

It is probably too late for such an idea now however.



Today's speech by Secretary Gates was a call for just such action. It was blunt, but exactly what needed to be said.[/QUOTE]
 
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The threat of the combined power of NATO I believe has helped keep a lid on several potential hot spots in Europe and the Middle East and if NATO were to crumble it might create an atmosphere where trouble could break out.

NATO has been in decline and has lacked needed commitment for some time, and I don't think Obama is the leader needed to pull them together to a renewed dedication to the principles it was formed to enforce.

I'm all for the concept of NATO, but I'm sick of having to do all the heavy lifting. If that's the way it's going to be, we might as well save our union dues and handle it ourselves.
 
a very important thread

1. fundamentally, nato's mission, its purpose---the protection of western europe from attack by the ussr and the warsaw pact---is and has been for quite awhile obsolete and defunct

2. gates' proclamation that the alliance is paper, that the united states does and has always done almost all the heavy lifting, exposes the president's internationalist rationalization in libya as perfidy

3. is it partisan to point this out, is it spin?

4. gates' call, however, comes at a time when the member nations he's talking to are least disposed to listen, he's speaking rather oddly at cross purposes

5. all that the secretary says about america's relationship with nato can be applied in spades to what goes down at the un, which also happens to be horribly stained with blood and corruption

6. gates is departing, as you know, and he seems to be undertaking some kind of farewell tour, or such

7. he's speaking out declaratively on afghanistan, the war obama escalated---the dod is strongly opposed to the white house's wanting a larger drawdown over there, starting in july, next month

8. afghanistan, which in my opinion has not received the attention it deserves, is going to become a much bigger political issue, which it should be

9. john kerry's foreign relations committee this week published a report it took 2 years to compile concluding our successes in afghanistan (mostly in the south) are "unsustainable" and that huge sums of money are being wasted, overwhelming local authorities who simply don't know what to do with it, fostering corruption and a national economic dependence on american aid

10. kerry concluded that afghanistan will collapse economically if and when we depart, 97% of the troubled land's gdp coming from "foreign military and investment"

11. rumors are that jfk is highly considered to replace hrc at foggy bottom (the state dept) when she heads off to the world bank

12. gates also made headlines yesterday by pronouncing his firm expectation that al maliki in iraq is gonna ask us to stay, and we will
 
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The blame is pretty one-sided here.

The U.S. has been going off on its own cockamamy missions to procure oil for the past 10+ years, expecting NATO to help or clean up the mess. The only mission I agree with is Afghanistan. The rest are U.S. vendettas that the other nations should have no part of.

If the U.S. pulls out of NATO then it's because the U.S. wants to, not because other countries aren't doing their jobs.
 
Does not matter if you are talking about NATO or the UN the US usually has the leadership to handle these situations this is not the case with Obama as president.

This Libyan episode is a demonstration of a serious NATO weakness, as well as America's. Recall how the Coalition troops rolled into Iraq with the most powerful military force in world history? Now they can't even defeat a two-bit third world dictator despite over two months of trying, and having America break its own laws in the process.

At one time, in fact throughout history, the idea of war was to win as quickly as possible but now, for purely political reasons, wars must be fought as though wars aren't really being fought. It seems that, at well over 200 years old, America is becoming senile.
 
I disagree with US weakness displayed. The NATO alliance which took over control of the Libya operation has been running out of ammunition, etc. The US has been there to hold its hand, and frankly our problem is we want to stop doing that. How exactly is the NATO alliance helping keep the US safe? The simple answer is, apart from England and France, it is not. We are keeping them safe for nothing in return.
 
I disagree with US weakness displayed. The NATO alliance which took over control of the Libya operation has been running out of ammunition, etc. The US has been there to hold its hand, and frankly our problem is we want to stop doing that. How exactly is the NATO alliance helping keep the US safe? The simple answer is, apart from England and France, it is not. We are keeping them safe for nothing in return.

It doesn't seem that the US is keeping them safe from anything in particular as Libya is no threat to anyone.

If they are running out of ammunition it sounds like it was all very poorly planned and it is also incredibly poorly executed.

BHO does not appear to be a wartime president, and neither do the others. Canada is in only because the new government wants to be a good ally, it seems, but Canada should just leave as well. Fight to win or don't bother.
 
It doesn't seem that the US is keeping them safe from anything in particular as Libya is no threat to anyone.

If they are running out of ammunition it sounds like it was all very poorly planned and it is also incredibly poorly executed.

BHO does not appear to be a wartime president, and neither do the others. Canada is in only because the new government wants to be a good ally, it seems, but Canada should just leave as well. Fight to win or don't bother.

That's not what I mean. NATO = collective security. We are not benefiting from NATO. They are benefiting from us. Under nato provisions if Russia suddenly attacks Poland then we consider it an attack on our own soil and we involve ourselves. If China attacks the US, what benefit are we getting from European nations other than France, england, and Germany?
 
“The blunt reality is that there will be dwindling appetite and patience in the U.S. Congress — and in the American body politic writ large — to expend increasingly precious funds on behalf of nations that are apparently unwilling to devote the necessary resources or make the necessary changes to be serious and capable partners in their own defense,” Mr. Gates said.

Without American involvement, the world will become a much more dangerous place.
 
That's not what I mean. NATO = collective security. We are not benefiting from NATO. They are benefiting from us. Under nato provisions if Russia suddenly attacks Poland then we consider it an attack on our own soil and we involve ourselves. If China attacks the US, what benefit are we getting from European nations other than France, england, and Germany?

Five out of 28 NATO countries are involved in this Libya fiasco so it hardly makes it a NATO exercise. The US is carrying NATO just as they're carrying the UN.

The Cold War is over and NATO, like the UN, is no longer necessary. Best for the serious democracies to withdraw from this out-dated organization and re-group into an effective force where the entry levels, and the requirements, are far more stringent. Our tax dollars are being wasted on frivolous expeditions where the objectives are unclear and the outcome uncertain.
 
Without American involvement, the world will become a much more dangerous place.

I agree, and there has to be more serious involvement and commitment from other countries.
 
Five out of 28 NATO countries are involved in this Libya fiasco so it hardly makes it a NATO exercise. The US is carrying NATO just as they're carrying the UN.

The Cold War is over and NATO, like the UN, is no longer necessary. Best for the serious democracies to withdraw from this out-dated organization and re-group into an effective force where the entry levels, and the requirements, are far more stringent. Our tax dollars are being wasted on frivolous expeditions where the objectives are unclear and the outcome uncertain.

Why withdraw and create a new one that does the same thing? Raise the requirements right now for the current organization. If these European nations don't want to put the money in, then too bad, you aren't getting collective defense. England, France, and Germany have shown they are willing, along with Canada. I don't know of any others that have.
 
Why withdraw and create a new one that does the same thing? Raise the requirements right now for the current organization. If these European nations don't want to put the money in, then too bad, you aren't getting collective defense. England, France, and Germany have shown they are willing, along with Canada. I don't know of any others that have.

Yes, that's another alternative, Gargantuan, and one that makes good sense. I'd like to see this 'coalition of the willing' become another type of UN, but without the involvement of any dictatorships.
 
The blame is pretty one-sided here.

The U.S. has been going off on its own cockamamy missions to procure oil for the past 10+ years, expecting NATO to help or clean up the mess. The only mission I agree with is Afghanistan. The rest are U.S. vendettas that the other nations should have no part of.

If the U.S. pulls out of NATO then it's because the U.S. wants to, not because other countries aren't doing their jobs.

So, how are the Brits and the French doing in Libya??
 
NATO no longer has any raison d'etre. It should disband, saving a lot of countries a lot of money that they can spend on more socially useful things than military hardware. What does NATO do that ad hoc cooperative actions between interested states could not do? Britain and France took the initiative over Libya and would have done irrespective of NATO. With the end of the Cold War I can't think of any reason for its continued existence.
 
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