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Thread: Defense Secretary Warns NATO of ‘Dim’ Future

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    Re: Defense Secretary Warns NATO of ‘Dim’ Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    The blame is pretty one-sided here.

    The U.S. has been going off on its own cockamamy missions to procure oil for the past 10+ years, expecting NATO to help or clean up the mess. The only mission I agree with is Afghanistan. The rest are U.S. vendettas that the other nations should have no part of.

    If the U.S. pulls out of NATO then it's because the U.S. wants to, not because other countries aren't doing their jobs.
    So, how are the Brits and the French doing in Libya??

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    Re: Defense Secretary Warns NATO of ‘Dim’ Future

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    So, how are the Brits and the French doing in Libya??
    Canada is also involved. I hope we get our share of the spOILs.

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    Re: Defense Secretary Warns NATO of ‘Dim’ Future


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    Re: Defense Secretary Warns NATO of ‘Dim’ Future

    First the Iranians humiliate their navy and now their air force can't contribute to the defeat of a ME dictator, who is also in the midst of a civil war??

    Given that Gadaffi also tricked them into releasing the Lockerbie bomber, Britain does appear to be having a rough time of it lately.

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    Re: Defense Secretary Warns NATO of ‘Dim’ Future

    NATO no longer has any raison d'etre. It should disband, saving a lot of countries a lot of money that they can spend on more socially useful things than military hardware. What does NATO do that ad hoc cooperative actions between interested states could not do? Britain and France took the initiative over Libya and would have done irrespective of NATO. With the end of the Cold War I can't think of any reason for its continued existence.
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    Re: Defense Secretary Warns NATO of ‘Dim’ Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    NATO no longer has any raison d'etre. It should disband, saving a lot of countries a lot of money that they can spend on more socially useful things than military hardware. What does NATO do that ad hoc cooperative actions between interested states could not do? Britain and France took the initiative over Libya and would have done irrespective of NATO. With the end of the Cold War I can't think of any reason for its continued existence.
    Another poster argued that it should be reorganized, and that might work as it is useless in its present form.

    But as every taxpayer knows, once you create a bureaucracy it becomes damned difficult to get rid of. Those 4-star Generals from Romania will probably fight hard (verbally of course) to keep it the way it is.

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    Re: Defense Secretary Warns NATO of ‘Dim’ Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    NATO no longer has any raison d'etre.
    Certainly not when Americans shoulder three-fourths of the bill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    It should disband, saving a lot of countries a lot of money that they can spend on more socially useful things than military hardware.
    What lot of countries, and what lot of money? Only five countries currently meet their NATO commitment to spend at least 2% of GDP on defense. One of those countries is Albania. So if you mean Albania will save a lot of money then you have a point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    What does NATO do that ad hoc cooperative actions between interested states could not do?
    Apparently, nothing. The E-weenies said NATO needed to do something in Libya. (Most Libyan oil flows to Europe. In the wake of a humanitarian disaster, so would Libyan refugees.) After the initial U.S.-led air campaign destroyed much of Gaddafi's offensive capability, we turned things over to the Weenies who've pretty much done nothing since. Turns out they can't do anything because they don't have the capability. Even when we supply things like mission planners and controllers, they can't bomb anything because they're running out of munitions.
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    Re: Defense Secretary Warns NATO of ‘Dim’ Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Certainly not when Americans shoulder three-fourths of the bill.
    And make nine-tenths of the decisions.



    What lot of countries, and what lot of money? Only five countries currently meet their NATO commitment to spend at least 2% of GDP on defense. One of those countries is Albania. So if you mean Albania will save a lot of money then you have a point.
    Well, even according to your rhetoric, that's 5 countries.


    Apparently, nothing. The E-weenies said NATO needed to do something in Libya. (Most Libyan oil flows to Europe. In the wake of a humanitarian disaster, so would Libyan refugees.) After the initial U.S.-led air campaign destroyed much of Gaddafi's offensive capability, we turned things over to the Weenies who've pretty much done nothing since. Turns out they can't do anything because they don't have the capability. Even when we supply things like mission planners and controllers, they can't bomb anything because they're running out of munitions.
    The initial air campaign was led by Britain and France. I don't believe the US carried out any of the initial raids.

    Your post shows up the issue clearly for both the US and its NATO allies. Disbanding NATO would free the US of what appears to be an onerous and resented obligation to act as the spearhead for operations in which it has little national interest. For the remaining allies it means that they do not have to fall-in behind US-driven operations with which they might fundamentally disagree. It's a win-win scenario, and one that clearly doesn't stop any of the members nations remaining friends and allies, and cooperating in future situations on an ad hoc basis.
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    Re: Defense Secretary Warns NATO of ‘Dim’ Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    And make nine-tenths of the decisions.
    not in libya, not according to this white house

    Page 4: Obama: US Will Turn Over Control of Libya Effort - ABC News

    The initial air campaign was led by Britain and France. I don't believe the US carried out any of the initial raids.
    you got it backwards, odyssey dawn operated for twelve days before nato "took over"

    FT.com / Middle East & North Africa - Pentagon sees Libya military costs soar

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    Re: Defense Secretary Warns NATO of ‘Dim’ Future

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    you got it backwards, odyssey dawn operated for twelve days before nato "took over"
    I was wrong. The US did take part in the first raids, but they were jointly conducted by the US, Britain and France, not the US alone.

    2011 military intervention in Libya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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