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Thread: Obama Team Eyes Employer Payroll Tax Break

  1. #41
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    Re: Obama Team Eyes Employer Payroll Tax Break

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Trickle down worked under Reagan? Hardly. Trickle down economics is just a Republican ploy that keeps failing...but for some strange reason Republicans keep wanting to try it. Obama is showing that he is just another moderate politician...trying to play to the middle.

    I will say that I will never cease to be amused by Democrats Economic Talking Points being dependent on arguing that the 80's were a period of economic suffering while the 30's were a period of strong economic growth and vitalization.

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    Re: Obama Team Eyes Employer Payroll Tax Break

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    We always had pulled out of prior Recessions in 12-24 months, and the deeper the Recessions had been, the stronger the recoveries.
    a very timely point

    on may 19, the usa today published a very short, very heavy piece explaining how "historically slow" was this recovery:

    Nearly two years after the economic recovery officially began, job creation continues to stagger at the slowest post-recession rate since the Great Depression.

    The nation has 5% fewer jobs today a loss of 7 million than it did when the recession began in December 2007. That is by far the worst performance of job generation following any of the dozen recessions since the 1930s.

    In the past, the economy recovered lost jobs 13 months on average after a recession. If this were a typical recovery, nearly 10 million more people would be working today than when the recession officially ended in June 2009.
    Job creation limps along after recession - USATODAY.com

    in the three weeks since usa's seminal synopsis i have read or heard the phrase, "historically slow recovery" more than a dozen times via msm sources

    i've comes across the deadly appellation, "double dip," more than two dozen times

    awareness and recognition of exactly how far down we've fallen, as well as the headwinds we face, is universal and intense, literally depressing this economy

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    Re: Obama Team Eyes Employer Payroll Tax Break

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I don't see what the Affordable Care Act has to do with anything
    last monday: Firms to cut health plans as reform starts: survey - MarketWatch

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    Re: Obama Team Eyes Employer Payroll Tax Break

    in my opinion a payroll holiday, which by definition is a reduction in the TAX ON HIRING, is too late

    had a 2 year payroll holiday gone down in that determinative spring of 09 and---most signficantly---if it were TALKED ABOUT a lot, ie, promoted by this administration, we would not be where we are today

    but it's too late now, i fear

    the gravity of this particular economy as of late has become fully PSYCHOLOGIZED

    the EMOTIONAL impact of this economy can be felt in cnn's poll last week that found 48% of americans EXPECT another GREAT DEPRESSION in the next year

    the in-the-gut gravity or our situation can be seen in usa today's finding two weeks ago that americans "overwhelmingly" intend to "delay major purchases" for at least a year

    when i saw that, i knew---there's no up, at least none within sight

    the housing market underlies it all, it's in our neighborhoods, we pass the foreclosure signs on the way to 7-11

    and the fed's announcement friday that qe is over, no more fed pumping of the bonds markets

    those things are real, they're unavoidable like math

    but i'm talking more about the MOOD of america, which is mired miserably in MALAISE

    a very severe case of malaise

    it's empirical in consumer confidence numbers, thru the floor and dropping

    67% of american say we're in a recession---rasmussen yesterday

    89% have a "negative view" of the economy---wapo/abc this week

    a woeful worry is it affecting the dow

    another totally out-there awareness i see, and this possessing the professional political class---there is physically NOT ENOUGH TIME for this employment picture to turn before the campaign

    especially when americans are so DOWN

    wsj said yesterday that americans who make between 31 and 72000 per year expect to work til they're SEVENTY TWO in order to have a 50-50 chance at being able to make their monthlies

    the references to this psychologizing, this internalizing of our anemic economy are becoming ubiquitous, in my opinion

    stay up

    and hold on
    Last edited by The Prof; 06-11-11 at 03:20 PM.

  5. #45
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    Re: Obama Team Eyes Employer Payroll Tax Break

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I will say that I will never cease to be amused by Democrats Economic Talking Points being dependent on arguing that the 80's were a period of economic suffering while the 30's were a period of strong economic growth and vitalization.
    That's a good one! I LOL'ed at that.

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    Re: Obama Team Eyes Employer Payroll Tax Break

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Government entitlements have destroyed American altruism. How can I give money to charity, when I don't know how the government is going to **** up the economy, next?
    1) The bold statements aren't correlated
    2) Government hasn't destroyed altruism society/culture has, slowly, over the since the 1920s. This is when you saw America transitioned from community/family centrism to individual is god.

    I'm currently reading Road to Serfdom. I largely agree with it, but neither Ayn Rand nor Hayke anticipated the depravity that would be born of their moral philosophies. The more I read contemporary and post-WW2 philosophers the more I appreciate the wisdom of Adam Smith.

  7. #47
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    Re: Obama Team Eyes Employer Payroll Tax Break

    All of the half measures being bandied about are not going to solve the problems we face.

    There has to an all encompassing program that addresses Corporate tax, incometax, capital gains tax, Gas tax, along with regulations that restrict growth and expansion such as stupid environmental laws, and include tort reform across the board to limit liability to reasonable amounts so that it hurt the defendant but doesn't put them out of business, unless they are crooks.

    Open all the known oil fields but make sure the Oil Companies know they well pay 100% for any damages they cause, and make them pay enough taxes so that the people of what ever state it is get a check from the profits like in Alaska.

    This would change the attitudes of people and allow then to spend with a little piece of mind. Until people stop feeling we are going the wrong direction they are not going to spend and until they do there is no reason for growth of any industry.

    As recovery returns we can go back and address all the environmental issues as well as all regulations that were temporarily removed, but this all needs to be done in moderation using a logical approach without the radical extremist fear mongering and lies that run the Country too damn much.

    Now all we need to do is find a Statesman who can understand these simple solutions and has the balls to argue for them and do it with conviction.

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    Re: Obama Team Eyes Employer Payroll Tax Break

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Proper "stimulus" is putting money directly into people's hands that are likely to quickly spend it, and not pay back debts. No one is in that position right now.



    Trickle down economics would work is people were inherently altruistic, but America largely destroyed its natural altruism over the last 60years. On top of this, technological innovations has made the demand for most goods require less labor, which means that rich guys who "keep more of his money" that goes out an buys a private jet doesn't necessarily lead to more people getting hired to build it.

    If someone pays down debts, what do credit card companies and banks do with that money? They lend it to others to make money with.

    The difference between a corporation spending money and the government spending money is that the corporation earned it and the goverment stole it. Legally stole mind you, but stole nonetheless.

    What you have to remember is that whatever money the government takes, that is money that someone else isnt pushing into the economy in some way. The government is essentially acting as a middleman and wasting money every time they touch it. They have no incentives to treat it as their own money---they can either take or make more.

    Government stimulus can be described as inefficient trickle down that is channeled through whoever is cronies to the party in power at the time. With a government cut, of course.

  9. #49
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    Re: Obama Team Eyes Employer Payroll Tax Break

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Isn't Obama supposed to be an evil anti-business socialist communist Maoist Stalinist Marxist foreigner?
    Getting reelected makes many politicians abandon their "principles" Look at Obama signing the Bush tax rate extensions in an attempt to keep the dems from taking a bath

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    Re: Obama Team Eyes Employer Payroll Tax Break

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    If someone pays down debts, what do credit card companies and banks do with that money? They lend it to others to make money with.
    Right now, those credit card companies are in debt as well. The rest of your post is rehashed talking points

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Getting reelected makes many politicians abandon their "principles" Look at Obama signing the Bush tax rate extensions in an attempt to keep the dems from taking a bath
    He extended them 2years because the repubs were going to filibuster everything until he did it. Nothing would have been done. The repubs played chicken and Obama flinched.

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