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Thread: Republican mainstream flirts with brief default

  1. #11
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    Re: Republican mainstream flirts with brief default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Look, Dons a smart guy, read his post, instead of just looking at it, and his logic is sound.

    I can only go off of what i see the people who know about this stuff, are saying, and what theyre saying is, not raising the debt ceiling would be disastrous.

    I don't just come up with these positions out of thin air, ive looked at it, and logic would suggest that, that assertion is correct. i mean hell, do you think of republicans could get away with doing it, they wouldn't? If they thought it was a good idea, then why aren't they just sitting back and saying "we're just not going to raise it"?

    Now, the other side of the coin, is this has never been done before by a country with an economy your size...

    But i say, **** it.

    Let's put you in charge el presidente, do it, and let's see what the outcome is :

    Do
    That's funny, because I've heard experts say not raising our debt would not be disastrous at all and we could still pay our debts because the gov't still has income. I did read his post, it's bull****, just like all the others I've read.

    Let me ask you this boogiedude, what is the POINT of a debt ceiling if it's constantly raised when met? I mean, why not just lift it completely?

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    Re: Republican mainstream flirts with brief default

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    That's funny, because I've heard experts say not raising our debt would not be disastrous at all and we could still pay our debts because the gov't still has income. I did read his post, it's bull****, just like all the others I've read.

    Let me ask you this boogiedude, what is the POINT of a debt ceiling if it's constantly raised when met? I mean, why not just lift it completely?
    A: what experts do you have, im sure you have some links and names for me.

    B: his post is not bull****.

    C: to answer your questions, if its that simple, then why aren't republicans just sitting back and saying we won't raise it? Do you think perhaps it's because perhaps they know something you don't

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    Re: Republican mainstream flirts with brief default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    I really don't think so...

    I think Don gets the bigger picture, something he's quite good with I think, I think people too far one way or the other are the problem... Keep spending a **** load, or let the US default and collapse your economy and quite possibly the world economy...

    That'd be grand
    Nothing's going to collapse. It's already collapsing. Just not on paper as long as we keep fudging the numbers.

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    Re: Republican mainstream flirts with brief default

    Dontworrybehappy,

    I'm trying to understand your side's position here. I understand the concept of living within your means - don't spend more than you earn. Despite my political lean, my family has lived this way for years. However, you said that "eventually our debtors will no longer buy our debt. Then we are screwed."

    If that's the case, please explain how foreign investors purchasing our nation's debt fits into the debt ceiling debate and how not purchasing them can have such a devastating effect? Seems to be your argument against raising the debt ceiling relates more to "borrowing and spending" rather than "selling off assets and liabilities". How are the two different and how does each affect our national economy?

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    Re: Republican mainstream flirts with brief default

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Dontworrybehappy,

    I'm trying to understand your side's position here. I understand the concept of living within your means - don't spend more than you earn. Despite my political lean, my family has lived this way for years. However, you said that "eventually our debtors will no longer buy our debt. Then we are screwed."

    If that's the case, please explain how foreign investors purchasing our nation's debt fits into the debt ceiling debate and how not purchasing them can have such a devastating effect? Seems to be your argument against raising the debt ceiling relates more to "borrowing and spending" rather than "selling off assets and liabilities". How are the two different and how does each affect our national economy?
    You can't borrow money unless someone is willing to put up the collateral. When our debtors say "no more" we will NO LONGER HAVE MONEY TO BORROW FROM. It's simple.

    The liberal scare tactic used is they love to muddy up the waters so you're left scratching your head saying, "I don't know what the hell they're talking about, but since they use bigger words than I do, they must be right." It's bull****. It's simple. I'd rather default on 14 trillion in debt than 50 trillion.

    If your spending is out of control and bankruptcy is the only way out, what would you recommend doing? Continuing to borrow and get yourself deeper in debt?
    Last edited by dontworrybehappy; 06-08-11 at 11:06 AM.

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    Re: Republican mainstream flirts with brief default

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    Damn right, this would be the SMARTEST thing they could do. Force the damn gov't to live within it's own means. What a very CONSERVATIVE idea!

    So it's stupid to make our gov't live within it's means?
    Swell...but that's not what failing to raise the debt ceiling does. Although I dislike equating the government's finances to personal finances, let's try an analogy: Suppose your family has a lot of bills each month, and you're finding it tough to make your payments. I think everyone would agree that you need to work on living within your means, but what is a better way to accomplish that?

    A) Cut back on some of your expenses so that your bills are smaller in the future.
    B) Stop paying the bills.

    There are sensible ways to get spending under control, and irresponsible ways to get spending under control. The debt ceiling circus is a classic example of the latter.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 06-08-11 at 11:27 AM.
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    Re: Republican mainstream flirts with brief default

    Failure to reign in the debt has the Chicken Little effect Geithner and others in the Obama Administration are complaining about. We have money to service our debt without raising the debt ceiling amount yet again. As was pointed out, the first thing one has to do to stop making the hole deeper is to stop digging. (E.g., stop continual debt spending without a way to curb that debt spending). No one is going to stop paying the bills. That nonsense is a scare tactic. I'm sure the Congress will do something, however I would hope that "something" is a guaranteed spending CUT or, better yet, a Constitutional Amendment to have a Balanced Budget. Yes, I know - the latter is a Conservatives wet dream - hope and change is ever present.

    RealClearPolitics - The Truth About the Debt Ceiling and Default

    The bottom line is nothing will change in spending ourselves into oblivion unless someone digs in their heels and says NO. Rolling over this issue without serious changes to our spending will be much worse than any fictional default being crowed about by the Obama Administration. Want to call it russian roulette? Fine - spin the cylinder and let's get down to it; something drastic has to happen for the cycle of insane spending to be curbed.
    Last edited by Ockham; 06-08-11 at 11:40 AM.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Republican mainstream flirts with brief default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Swell...but that's not what failing to raise the debt ceiling does. Although I dislike equating the government's finances to personal finances, let's try an analogy: Suppose your family has a lot of bills each month, and you're finding it tough to make your payments. I think everyone would agree that you need to work on living within your means, but what is a better way to accomplish that?

    A) Cut back on some of your expenses so that your bills are smaller in the future.
    B) Stop paying the bills.

    There are sensible ways to get spending under control, and irresponsible ways to get spending under control. The debt ceiling circus is a classic example of the latter.
    You forgot options C, D, and E, which is what our government does constantly:

    C) Open up new credit accounts
    D) Ask for credit increases on existing credit accounts
    E) Force your children (taxpayers) to pay rent and work for free around the house (raise taxes)

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    Re: Republican mainstream flirts with brief default

    Aren't there a couple of things that everyone on both sides of the debate are missing here?

    1. We are now, and have been for some time buying our own damned debt by printing, or "digitizing" money out of thin air.

    That must stop right NOW!

    2. We have a population where 47% are non liability voters, voting themselves money from the treasury, and giving NOTHING!

    3. The fed reserve is corrupt!

    These things need to be addressed IMHO before ANY real discussion of anything else can take place.

    j-mac
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    Re: Republican mainstream flirts with brief default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    If they don't raise the debt ceiling, it will literally be the stupidest (economic) thing that our Congress has done in 222 years. And that's not an exaggeration.

    Because all the spending that got us here was well reasoned and intelligent.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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