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Thread: Anonymous declares war on Turkish Government

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    Re: Anonymous declares war on Turkish Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Anonymous members who commit crimes have those crimes investigated by the appropriate law enforcement agencies just like anyone else.

    What do you suggest be done?
    I suggest that we be a little more cautious before ladening praise onto them for what they do. Protest and reform are almost always good things. Subversion, criminal action, and purposely causing harm to generate change are almost always not. I do not recall any article in which a member of Anonymous was charged and tried for a crime, though they've freely admitted to cyber crimes and harrassment.
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    Re: Anonymous declares war on Turkish Government

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I suggest that we be a little more cautious before ladening praise onto them for what they do. Protest and reform are almost always good things. Subversion, criminal action, and purposely causing harm to generate change are almost always not. I do not recall any article in which a member of Anonymous was charged and tried for a crime, though they've freely admitted to cyber crimes and harrassment.
    How about the countries that do not have that leisure of protest you enjoy so much tess? Who helps them overcome internet filters and internet lockdowns? The US is not the world. Protest in the majority of the world is either stiffled violently or has no affect on government supported and upheld by the oligarchs only.

    Turkey has a good electoral system heavily influenced by the voter but it also faces a government that wants to expand its powers and create a presidential system which will likely lead to one party rule and a huge internet censorship bill under the guise of protecting youth in a country that has always enjoyed free internet, in a country where Erdogan ruthlessly defends himself against legitemate criticism through the use of riot police.

    Our Democratic, modern, Kemalist state is being threatened and is on the verge of complete annihilation. The journey after the death of Ataturks message will be Theocracy and Iranian style rule and it will be just one more bad guy on the block and one more blockade to world peace.
    Last edited by kaya'08; 06-07-11 at 12:51 PM.
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    Re: Anonymous declares war on Turkish Government

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    How about the countries that do not have that leisure of protest you enjoy so much tess? Who helps them overcome internet filters and internet lockdowns? The US is not the world. Protest in the majority of the world is either stiffled violently or has no affect on government supported and upheld by the oligarchs only.

    Turkey has a good electoral system heavily influenced by the voter but it also faces a government that wants to expand its powers and create a presidential system which will likely lead to one party rule and a huge internet censorship bill under the guise of protecting youth in a country that has always enjoyed free internet, in a country where Erdogan ruthlessly defends himself against legitemate criticism.
    I understand that many governments disallow public protest. But I've also seen public protest occur in those countries. I've seen people join up and fight against governments with weapons they were never allowed to have.

    I am fully supportive of people fighting against tyranny. I am fully supportive of outside help in fighting against tyranny. I am fully opposed to giving a group of confessed criminals complete freedom to do and act as they please because they're "doing good". All I'm saying is it would be unwise to sit and allow Anonymous to do anything that puts the rest of the world or the citizens of any country, state, town, or tribe at risk on the basis of any principal. Once they over-extend their reach and people's lives are at risk over their actions it may be too late to stop them. They should be watched carefully, not celebrated and freely encouraged to interfere everywhere they see fit to interfere.
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    Re: Anonymous declares war on Turkish Government

    I understand that many governments disallow public protest. But I've also seen public protest occur in those countries. I've seen people join up and fight against governments with weapons they were never allowed to have.
    How where these gatherings conducted? A lot of the movement was actually ORGANIZED via the internet through censored sites like Twitter and Facebook. Egypt was even named the Twitter revolution, but Hosni blocked that. So how did people overcome that? Anonymous opened a proxy hub for egyptians to continue using social networking undisturbed, and it worked. If you support this kind of forceful protest (and you are right to) then why is the actions of Anonymous a greater concern in terms of legality during a protest against undemocratic gov?

    I am fully opposed to giving a group of confessed criminals complete freedom to do and act as they please because they're "doing good". All I'm saying is it would be unwise to sit and allow Anonymous to do anything that puts the rest of the world or the citizens of any country, state, town, or tribe at risk on the basis of any principal.
    This depends on what end of the gun is pointed at you. From an objective stance giving any group utter freedom is dangerous. But we curb there actions through security mechanisms, through intelligence gathering and legislation. Its precisely these pillars that the US/UK deploys to find and arrest anonymous members. They are NOT exempt from the law, but i also believe there skills can be used for good aswell as bad, a bit like superpowers.

    Anonymous Arrests
    Last edited by kaya'08; 06-07-11 at 01:02 PM.
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    Re: Anonymous declares war on Turkish Government

    I personally felt like there was no hope before i heard this news. Anonymous has given me a slice of hope in this fight and we will use it to bring the war to Erdogan.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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    Re: Anonymous declares war on Turkish Government

    I admire the social action to stop censorship but this group - or this collection of basement dwellers who loosely understand the nature of political and social freedoms - are criminals. Do we forget that they illegally hacked the PSN network, potentially exposing the financial details of millions of people, costing Sony and game developers around the world millions? All because 0.1% of the Sony fans couldn't use a Linux operating system? Besides, these guys are, for the most part, full of hot air. They 'declared war' on the UK in January and nothing came of it.

    I fully support internet freedoms but you can't go about it like these people do. Instead of supporting Wikileaks through legitimate political action they hack credit card companies, instead of petitioning Sony they hack their networks, instead of launching a genuine political campaign against Turkey they do this. They need to be stopped, especially considering that, in reality, it's 40 or so people causing all this damage and ignoring the criticisms against them.
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    Re: Anonymous declares war on Turkish Government

    Im sure that you are aware that crime is a term that is open to interpretation, societies and governments are only there because they are useful to man, not the other way around, and by extension laws are there to serve humanity... If the societies, governments in question and their laws start to fail the citizens, then they must be dealt with by any means nessecary... And remember kids, poorly made laws only make more criminals

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    Re: Anonymous declares war on Turkish Government

    This reminds me of past youth-led movements. 1960s come to mind. Foolish adventures that remove any tiny portion of the "good fight" and replace it with juvenile delusions.
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    Re: Anonymous declares war on Turkish Government

    The cold war and the 60's in particular were different times, but still you really cant deny that those movements had a modest part to play in shaping the modern or "post-modern" world today. But I agree every fight must be fought with purpose and cunning.... But harassment works too, Im not going to rant about corrupt governments and pointless beurocracy, thats just how **** is, however Im going to say that if you want something you must be ready to take it

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    Re: Anonymous declares war on Turkish Government

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I suggest that we be a little more cautious before ladening praise onto them for what they do. Protest and reform are almost always good things. Subversion, criminal action, and purposely causing harm to generate change are almost always not. I do not recall any article in which a member of Anonymous was charged and tried for a crime, though they've freely admitted to cyber crimes and harrassment.
    So, I shouldn't praise someone for taking action I support because they might hypothetically do something I don't support at some theoretical point in the future?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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