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Officials: Half of force trained on gay ban repeal

Redress said:
Yes, both. In fact, the only one who said the gays had anything to so with it was one US general, who claimed he had been told by one, unnamed Dutch officer. And you know this because we discussed all this when the controversy was going on after the general made an ass of himself.
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Gee! The Dutch government? Whatelse are they going to say?? :lamo

Two facts are certain; 1) That unit fell apart in the face of the enemy and 2) The Dutch Army allows gays to serve openly.
 
roguenuke said:
If the "minor problems" already exist, then why are we arguing about this? And exactly what are those "minor problems"? I am looking for problems due just to homosexuals, not to mixed gender groups. Also, if we know there are problems, then we should be addressing exactly why those things are happening and look to minimize them. My guess is that you are talking about some discrimination against homosexuals or possibly some harassment.
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Rogue...let me point out a glaring fact...I am a realist. I grew up in a Navy environment, spent 20 years AD, and still work with the Dept of the Army. I have CONSISTENTLY stated that this was GOING to happen, that there would be some problems, and eventually the force would adapt. Always has...always will. In every thread people lose their ****ing MINDS when you actually present an argument that there will be some problems with the repeal of DADT...primarily because they are so desperate to see their pet cause be made mandate that they deny any potential possible problem. If you dare to be honest, realistic, and suggest otherwise they do their normal shrill "OMG YOU ARE A HOMOPHOBE!!!" routine. Its pathetic.

And seriously...did you really just say "problems due just to homosexuals, not to mixed gender groups"? What environment do you anticipate there NOT being mixed groups???
 
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it is indeed.
 
VanceMack said:
You will of course be joinging and putting your life on the line...right?
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Why would I do that? I never asked anyone to do that for me. How many times do i need to repeat that I do not support any military action anywhere for any reason.
 
Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

Must've been a pretty good idea that CLINTON had, huh?
 
cpwill said:
you know what - I go to a great length, and go into deep, personal history to explain to you why we approach this topic the way we do..... and this is how you respond.


you know what? **** it. you are just as big a bigot as anything you are accusing anyone else of. I'm done feeding the troll.
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You don't even know what a bigot is.
 
katiegrrl0 said:
Why would I do that? I never asked anyone to do that for me. How many times do i need to repeat that I do not support any military action anywhere for any reason.
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Well then telling you to shut the **** up and mind your own business will probably only be satisfying to me but have zero impact on you. However...you embody the problem...far too many people with zero investment in either the environment or potential problems. Go back to the mall...and dont worry...we will continue to do the job you find too icky and nasty and beneath you.
 
cpwill said:
sure you have. you have accused us of hatred and bigotry.



do you think of the police the same way?

I suggest you go live for a while in Saudi Arabia. You'll have a great time as a woman there. Perhaps you will come back with a brand new appreciation for those who sign up to defend your freedoms.
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I think guns should be gotten rid of. I think in terms of difficulties with nations dialogue should be used. I see no way to justify the military industrial complex.
 
interesting. so, fleeing the slaves? you would have been against that?

in terms of difficulties with nations dialogue should be used.... okay, and what about when our "difficulties" are "they want to kill us and take our stuff"?
 
apdst said:
So, instead, we have to have the, "I'm gay and proud", regulation put into place?
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That's not true at all. IT is I am a human and deserve to be treated like anyone else.
 
VanceMack said:
Well then telling you to shut the **** up and mind your own business will probably only be satisfying to me but have zero impact on you. However...you embody the problem...far too many people with zero investment in either the environment or potential problems. Go back to the mall...and dont worry...we will continue to do the job you find too icky and nasty and beneath you.
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I didn't ask you to defend me. So don't expect a thanks.
 
katiegrrl0 said:
You don't even know what a bigot is.
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well, given your apparent view of how people interact, it seems your grasp on reality is apparently somewhat jilted; so I don't exactly think I'm worried about your claim.
 
katiegrrl0 said:
I didn't ask you to defend me. So don't expect a thanks.
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no, you just quietly remain safe behind the walls of his protection. as a pacifist, it seems you lack the courage of your convictions.
 
cpwill said:
in the grunts there IS no "personal life".
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Bull****. I met my husband while he was a grunt. He certainly did have a personal life, just like most of the other guys that were in his unit.
 
VanceMack said:
Well then telling you to shut the **** up and mind your own business will probably only be satisfying to me but have zero impact on you. However...you embody the problem...far too many people with zero investment in either the environment or potential problems. Go back to the mall...and dont worry...we will continue to do the job you find too icky and nasty and beneath you.
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You want the truth?!? :mrgreen:
 
katiegrrl0 said:
I didn't ask you to defend me. So don't expect a thanks.
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You cant even begin to imagine how little I care about your 'thanks'. However I DO truly hope that in your unrealistic world where there are no guns and **** smells like daisies and the sky is never cloudy but there are always rainbows, that you NEVER (and I mean that sincerely) have to confront someone that will do you harm. I promise you...their **** stinks. And in that moment...so will your world.
 
cpwill said:
interesting. so, fleeing the slaves? you would have been against that?

in terms of difficulties with nations dialogue should be used.... okay, and what about when our "difficulties" are "they want to kill us and take our stuff"?
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I am guessing that you are saying freeing the slaves.
Does this have anything to do with the current state of military? Does it have anything to do with misuse of forces? Slavery ended in many nations with no war.
 
katiegrrl0 said:
I think guns should be gotten rid of. I think in terms of difficulties with nations dialogue should be used. I see no way to justify the military industrial complex.
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When people are willing to fly planes into buildings killing thousands of innocent people there is a need for decisive brutal violent action.
 
cpwill said:
You want the truth?!? :mrgreen:
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The funny part is people see Col Jesseps monologue as an INDICTMENT on the system and not an absolute undeniable fact that most people can and will never understand.
 
katiegrrl0 said:
I am guessing that you are saying freeing the slaves.
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:) mis type.

Does this have anything to do with the current state of military? Does it have anything to do with misuse of forces? Slavery ended in many nations with no war.
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not here. and not internationally, either. the British Royal Navy ended much of the African slave trade, and they did it by hunting down and killing slavers.


so my question stands. if you are against all military action irrespective - does this mean that you would have been willing to leave blacks in slavery, the chinese being exterminated, jews in concentration camps.... all because you would have considered those to be superior alternatives to military action?
 
winston53660 said:
When people are willing to fly planes into buildings killing thousands of innocent people there is a need for decisive brutal violent action.
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no, no, no; they're just angry because we don't have gay pride parades on military bases, and we just need to dialogue with them better.
 
VanceMack said:
Rogue...let me point out a glaring fact...I am a realist. I grew up in a Navy environment, spent 20 years AD, and still work with the Dept of the Army. I have CONSISTENTLY stated that this was GOING to happen, that there would be some problems, and eventually the force would adapt. Always has...always will. In every thread people lose their ****ing MINDS when you actually present an argument that there will be some problems with the repeal of DADT...primarily because they are so desperate to see their pet cause be made mandate that they deny any potential possible problem. If you dare to be honest, realistic, and suggest otherwise they do their normal shrill "OMG YOU ARE A HOMOPHOBE!!!" routine. Its pathetic.

And seriously...did you really just say "problems due just to homosexuals, not to mixed gender groups"? What environment do you anticipate there NOT being mixed groups???
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And I have never said that there would be no problems. I am a realist too and realize that there is little chance that the repeal will happen without any hitches. What I don't believe is that there will be any significant problems. It is possible, but I would bet that any serious issue would be due to a person not being happy with having to work with gays, not from the gay person themself.

And individuals should be treated as individuals. Even if there are cases of sexual harassment from gays, those should not determine how all gays are treated, because I am certain the vast majority of gays are not going to sexually harass anyone, just like the vast majority of straights do not sexually harass anyone else.

I made that comment because some people like to equate the problems caused in mixed gender units (units with men and women) to the problems that might arise from units having gays in them. There are no mixed gender combat units in the US military. There are gay men in our combat units. But there is a big difference between women and gay men and how men treat women as compared to how men treat other men, even gay men.
 
VanceMack said:
The funny part is people see Col Jesseps monologue as an INDICTMENT on the system and not an absolute undeniable fact that most people can and will never understand.
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truth.


If you don't know, then frankly, you don't know. And you can't really be told. Not all that effectively.
 
apdst said:
Gee! The Dutch government? Whatelse are they going to say?? :lamo

Two facts are certain; 1) That unit fell apart in the face of the enemy and 2) The Dutch Army allows gays to serve openly.
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Do you even know how poor this argument is?
 
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