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Thread: Tens of thousands protest outside Greek parliament

  1. #21
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    Re: Tens of thousands protest outside Greek parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    ah huh.. Sure it was. Greek conservatives are light years left of Canaidian conservatives which are themselves many degrees left of American conservatves, so hey, if you think it make you feel better, then have at er..


    Tim-
    First of all .. every conservative outside the US is light years to the left of American conservatives.

    Secondly, Greek conservatives are just like every other conservative politician in the real world. They cut taxes, sell off state companies to friends and allow big business to run amok.. and hello financial crisis!
    PeteEU

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    Re: Tens of thousands protest outside Greek parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    First of all .. every conservative outside the US is light years to the left of American conservatives.

    Secondly, Greek conservatives are just like every other conservative politician in the real world. They cut taxes, sell off state companies to friends and allow big business to run amok.. and hello financial crisis!
    ah, so it's all us evil conservatives that make these kinds of messes? Problem is that it's not conservative philosphies at work, it's actually conservatives in name only adopting liberal philosophies that get us all into trouble.. But thanks for playing..


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: Tens of thousands protest outside Greek parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Moving to the Euro was a mistake. Just as redistributive methods don't work long term for individuals before someone else's money runs out, the same applies to those methods on a inter country scale as well.

    Keynes is a failure


    j-mac
    No. Moving to the Euro was not a mistake. The world needed a counter weight to the US dollar not to mention the positives of having a currency union for business and competition.

    The mistake was allowing Greece into the Euro because Greece was not ready at all and lied about many things.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Tens of thousands protest outside Greek parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    They cut taxes, sell off state companies to friends and allow big business to run amok.. and hello financial crisis!
    Why does this sound so familiar....
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Tens of thousands protest outside Greek parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    ah, so it's all us evil conservatives that make these kinds of messes? Problem is that it's not conservative philosphies at work, it's actually conservatives in name only adopting liberal philosophies that get us all into trouble.. But thanks for playing..


    Tim-
    Err so giving tax cuts to big business and deregulating is not conservative policies?

    And thanks for proving another point about some conservatives... blame everyone else for their own mistakes... just like you saying they are not "real" conservatives because they acted like all other conservative parties that got it wrong over the last 30 years.. /wave GOP and the neo-cons.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Tens of thousands protest outside Greek parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoop View Post
    Under the Junta they actually reduced the amount of civil servants. That's 25% of the workforce these days, 30 billion euri on wages alone.
    The Junta was ultra conservative. It came to power to stop in part a communist power grab during the cold war. They reduced the amount of civil servants because it was in the civil service (parts) where the "commies had infiltrated". They also hit down on unions and seized quite a few companies with links to the left/opposition. That is what Juntas do!
    PeteEU

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    Re: Tens of thousands protest outside Greek parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Err so giving tax cuts to big business and deregulating is not conservative policies?

    And thanks for proving another point about some conservatives... blame everyone else for their own mistakes... just like you saying they are not "real" conservatives because they acted like all other conservative parties that got it wrong over the last 30 years.. /wave GOP and the neo-cons.
    Dude, here's an easy way to view conservatives in terms of how we approach government interference. Two words.. Hands off .. Or one word.. Limited! That includes any corporate welfare, hand outs, gifts cronism, corruption.. All that jive bro..

    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: Tens of thousands protest outside Greek parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoop View Post
    Under the Junta they actually reduced the amount of civil servants. That's 25% of the workforce these days, 30 billion euri on wages alone.
    Sorry I phrased the question poorly. I meant how much of it was accrued under military rule. I was thinking of examples like Duvalier in Haiti, foreigners install and support a regime, the regime takes out huge loans then leaves the people with the debt. Best racket in the world.

  9. #29
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    Re: Tens of thousands protest outside Greek parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    First of all .. every conservative outside the US is light years to the left of American conservatives.

    Secondly, Greek conservatives are just like every other conservative politician in the real world. They cut taxes, sell off state companies to friends and allow big business to run amok.. and hello financial crisis!
    Socialist civil servants would never be so unscrupulous as to waste public funds to enrich themselves and their civil servant buddies (or any private inetresst buddies that are allowed by the system)! No wait, they raise taxes so they can give more appropriate more of those funds to corrupt jackasses.

    It's truly sickening that the Greeks, with their ridiculously low retirement ages and embarassingly short working weeks, got a better bailout deal than the Irish (with our ponzi scheme of a nation that European private and public interests were complicit in funding for a quick buck) and still act like whiny bitches when they're faced with reality.

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    Re: Tens of thousands protest outside Greek parliament

    Both left- and right-of-center governments in Greece are responsible for that country's present predicament. Moreover, the seeds of Greece's debt crisis were planted many years ago. There were some extraordinary circumstances involved.

    • Dictatorship prior to 1974 that stunted Greece's economic development, leaving the country with increasingly uncompetitive industries/firms. Toward the end of the dictatorship, as the uncompetitiveness was worsening, Greece's annual economic growth was diminishing.

    • 1970s twin energy crises that created substantial economic shocks and further undermined Greece's economy.

    • Greece's internationalization of its economy that created an inherent conflict from continuing social modernization and economic/fiscal restructuring. Democratically-elected governments vacillated between the two approaches.

    • Greece's economic growth has become insufficient to exclude revenue-increasing measures when it comes to fiscal improvement.

    • Greece experienced a cyclical boom during part of the 2000s that masked serious underlying structural problems. That boom was reversed as the U.S. real estate bubble burst, U.S. financial crisis unfolded, U.S. economy moved into a severe recession, and the U.S. contagion spread though financial and trade channels. Hence, the benefits of cyclical growth dissipated while the underlying structural problems continued to fester.

    Currently, Greece is facing a solvency crisis. At the same time, in the near-term, that solvency crisis has translated into a liquidity crisis under which Greece cannot, on its own, finance its current operations. EU/IMF assistance aims to address that liquidity problem in order to buy time for Greece to adopt the expenditure- and revenue-side reforms necessary to address its solvency crisis.

    Despite Greece's extraordinary predicament, Greece's opposition conservatives want to reduce that country's taxes. That move that would only exacerbate the country's current fiscal gap at a time when it is unable to fund its own operations. Greece is in no position to pursue tax cuts given the gravity of its fiscal crisis. The demand for tax cuts is a reckless maneuver aimed solely at exploiting the current crisis for political advantage. That it would worsen the crisis, if pursued, is irrelevant to the opposition.

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