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Thread: Tens of thousands protest outside Greek parliament

  1. #11
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    Re: Tens of thousands protest outside Greek parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Nothing to do with socialism.. in fact it was conservative economic policies that got them into the problem in the first place.
    ah huh.. Sure it was. Greek conservatives are light years left of Canaidian conservatives which are themselves many degrees left of American conservatves, so hey, if you think it make you feel better, then have at er..


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    Re: Tens of thousands protest outside Greek parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Honestly, at this point Greece is probably better off to just default on its debt and bring back the drachma. I don't see any other way out of this for them. There is no possible way that they are ever going to be able to pay down their debt, and the fact that they don't have a currency of their own is certainly not helping the situation. If they default, they'll have a severe recession for a few years; if they don't, they'll have a severe recession indefinitely.

    It's a sad situation for them, and there really isn't a good option. But default seems like the least bad.
    Were Greece to default, its banking system would collapse. The ECB would rightly sever ties with Greece's banking system and repudiate Greek debt instruments as collateral. Greece's switching to the Drachma, even if no transitional issues existed, would not insulate it from the consequences of its default. Greece would remain shut out of the global credit markets and a depression of much greater magnitude than Greece's current economic difficulties would unfold. With a very weak export sector, Greece would find itself locked out of the credit markets for a prolonged period of time.

    IMO, painful as it is, Greece needs to proceed with austerity, including structural reform of its health and benefits systems. At the same time, Greece needs to sell state assets to reduce its outstanding debt and greatly step up its efforts to deal with the tax evasion problem. According to a 2008 Articile IV consultation, the IMF concluded that "tax evasion is firmly entrenched" in Greece. Addressing the tax evasion problem might work if Greece did the following:

    1. Offered a brief window of amnesty during which the evaders paid all their outstanding tax liabilities with interest no less than the rate Greece is paying its creditors and then committed to paying all future taxes.
    2. Those not paying their back taxes or seeking to push their assets outside of Greece would be subject to prosecution and severe penalties (including punitive forfeiture of assets well in excess of their tax liabilities to realign the incentives that now favor pervasive tax evasion).
    3. To establish credibility, visible examples related to the prosecution of prominent tax evaders and significant punishment upon convictions would be provided (names, addresses, any businesses with which they were associated, extent of evasion, fines and penalties, jail sentence, etc.).
    4. Made changes in the tax system, placing greater emphasis on difficult to evade taxes and introduced more robust withholding, particularly for the self-employed.
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 06-06-11 at 02:59 PM.

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    Re: Tens of thousands protest outside Greek parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Oh they understand.. they blame the banks and rich business people and by defaulting said person and companies would loose their shirts. The Greek people are already in pain and can take more, the banks and rich business people have barely been touched so far (relatively speaking) so in many ways they are correct in their accusations.

    And whom do you blame, seeing that you in Spain have a similar problem, and class warfare seem to be en vogue these days among the left.

    j-mac

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    Re: Tens of thousands protest outside Greek parliament

    Not long ago Greece had military regime. I don't see why not have that again as they default. And how come the drahma could be converted in euros 10 years ago and cannot be converted back? So, the ECB can print money with a snap of a finger but Greece cannot print its own money, huh?
    It's the banks, folks.

  5. #15
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    Re: Tens of thousands protest outside Greek parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Just saying that is what they are saying... it might or might not be rational but that is how they are feeling and saying.
    No forget the rich people....what about the debts acquired from international markets, from Turkish and Greek Cypriot banks who are very exposed to Greek banks? It's how they are feeling sure, but they will suffer more in the long run if they DONT pay back the creditors.

    The lack of economic vision on behalf of previous Greek authorities is to blame here and there subsequent lies to the public, no good will be achieved by scapegoating problems in my honest opinion.
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    Re: Tens of thousands protest outside Greek parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    Not long ago Greece had military regime. I don't see why not have that again as they default. And how come the drahma could be converted in euros 10 years ago and cannot be converted back? So, the ECB can print money with a snap of a finger but Greece cannot print its own money, huh?
    It's the banks, folks.
    What will this achieve? Here in Europe we do not applaud unmandated rule.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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    Re: Tens of thousands protest outside Greek parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    What will this achieve? Here in Europe we do not applaud unmandated rule.
    Moving to the Euro was a mistake. Just as redistributive methods don't work long term for individuals before someone else's money runs out, the same applies to those methods on a inter country scale as well.

    Keynes is a failure


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    Re: Tens of thousands protest outside Greek parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Moving to the Euro was a mistake. Just as redistributive methods don't work long term for individuals before someone else's money runs out, the same applies to those methods on a inter country scale as well.

    Keynes is a failure


    j-mac
    It sure was a mistake.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

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    Re: Tens of thousands protest outside Greek parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Tens of thousands protest outside Greek parliament - Hurriyet Daily News and Economic Review



    I dont think the Greek public understands that by not paying its creditors it will be virtually black listed on the bond market...which means Greece will not be able to meet its expenses requirements and be even worse off.

    Sure they basically ARE black listed anyway but this will cause irreperable damage to Greece and its relationship with creditors if that where to happen.
    It would be interesting to see how much of this debt is a result of military rule.

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    Re: Tens of thousands protest outside Greek parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    It would be interesting to see how much of this debt is a result of military rule.
    Under the Junta they actually reduced the amount of civil servants. That's 25% of the workforce these days, 30 billion euri on wages alone.

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