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Thread: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

  1. #51
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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I do love a good liberal spin...

    Saddam NEVER STOPPED brutalizing his people.
    You really want to go down that road? You do realize that justification calls for invading and occupying Russia, Iran, Burma, China and even Turkey to a degree no?

    there were three reasons given to attack Iraq, global ties to terrorism
    Which pale in comparison to US ties but let's ignore that for now.

    refussal to comply with UN resolutions regarding the disposition of his known WMD programs
    You mean like the fact he didn't have anything?

    and genocide. Genocide has been a common theme. His republican guard made people disappear on a regular basis.
    You appear to be unaware of what "genocide" means.

    We are involved in regime change in Libya. Their country represents aboslutely no threat to the American people. We stepped in it and its up to our knees. Funny tho that even though we as the president says, dont stand for povernments killing their citizens, we havent said **** in Syria, Saudi, Bahrain, Yemen...the hit list goes on. And face it...it doesnt MATTER. He could launch an attack on a girl scout cookie stand and his true believers would find a reason to justify it.
    What exactly are you arguing? You defend Iraq on the basis of its leader brutalizing people, but at the same time you aren't for invading others on the same rational?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Are there elements of Al-Qaeda in Libya of course they are every there is a Jihad to be had. Are they in any way influencing polices from the transitional government or actually organized. No. They are a non-entity that is contributing bodies, just like in Iraq.
    I believe your analogy to be significantly flawed. Al Qaeda in Iraq was a non-player in why we were involved there to begin with, and never politically significant.

    However, in Libya, the fighting started without us. With Al Qaeda and other jihadist influence already amongst the rebels. I have read here and elsewhere about these bonds of democracy etc. that we have put our hope in. To be honest, the only reason these jihadists are welcoming us now is the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" link. Otherwise, there is absolutely nothing for us to bank on with regard to future allegiance. This would be one place where Al Qaeda actually has oil to bankroll itself. They are not in this so we can all be friends.

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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Obama has explained the US mission very clearly: Support our NATO allies as minimally as possible, so that the UN resolution can be realized according to UN and NATO goals. We have not recognized the transitional government, put people on the ground or made any other major move like Euros have.

    He is doing precisely what he said he would do, and what he has consistently explained was the US mission.
    The US is NATO.

    Without the US NATO would be nada.

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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Sorry but that is bs.

    The Obama administration has explained the current mission. To aid NATO in its mission in Libya by providing logistical support and some command and control functions. What has not been clear is the over all mission of NATO and how far they are willing to go, but that has nothing to do with what the US is providing.

    As for the War Powers Resolution.. does that War Powers Resolution not require an actual war that the US is participating in?... like shooting **** and stuff on a consistent basis? I mean.. is there a requirement to use the War Powers Resolution each time when Bush (and now Obama) used cruise missiles in Pakistan? Or sending in CIA operatives to kidnap/rendition people in Italy, Gambia and other places... yes that is an act of war also.
    If you use examples you should the 60 day rule, which any US President is legally obliged to follow. He gets a pass for the first 60 days but no longer.

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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The US is NATO.

    Without the US NATO would be nada.
    Then how is NATO capable of daily bombings, interceptions and otherwise all actual combat roles since the US is doing little more then surveillance and refueling?

    Despite the alliance's early failure to cope with the withdraw of US combat assets, it has stepped up.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    I believe your analogy to be significantly flawed. Al Qaeda in Iraq was a non-player in why we were involved there to begin with, and never politically significant.

    However, in Libya, the fighting started without us. With Al Qaeda and other jihadist influence already amongst the rebels. I have read here and elsewhere about these bonds of democracy etc. that we have put our hope in. To be honest, the only reason these jihadists are welcoming us now is the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" link. Otherwise, there is absolutely nothing for us to bank on with regard to future allegiance. This would be one place where Al Qaeda actually has oil to bankroll itself. They are not in this so we can all be friends.
    They said the same thing about Iran when they were getting rid of the Shah, and look what happened.

    Of course I hope I'm wrong but this looks like the same thing to me. The US is breaking their own laws in an unexplained war and, as well, little fuss is being made by the international community over the entire illegality of this war. At least not in the same way we witnessed in the case of the worst ME dictator of his day, Saddam Hussein.

    I know of no UN Resolutions Libya has defied and, as well, there were worse cases of genocide, in Darfur for example, where the world did nothing.

    I certainly have no sympathy for Gadaffi, but this thing stinks.

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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Then how is NATO capable of daily bombings, interceptions and otherwise all actual combat roles since the US is doing little more then surveillance and refueling?

    Despite the alliance's early failure to cope with the withdraw of US combat assets, it has stepped up.
    I don't buy that.

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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I don't buy that.
    Care to point out what assets the US is providing to run combat operations? The bombings are being done by a variety of aircraft, virtually none of which the US operates. Tornados? Nope. Rafales? Nope. Eurofighters? Nope.

    The best airframe for the Libya engagement is exclusively US. And it's not being used. The Libyan engagement is basically what the A-10 was designed for. Have those been used?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Care to point out what assets the US is providing to run combat operations? The bombings are being done by a variety of aircraft, virtually none of which the US operates. Tornados? Nope. Rafales? Nope. Eurofighters? Nope.

    The best airframe for the Libya engagement is exclusively US. And it's not being used. The Libyan engagement is basically what the A-10 was designed for. Have those been used?
    The fact is that this war is, from an American point of view, illegal. That is a fact.

    We've also had little information about what's going on as well as direct lies, i.e. 'boots on the ground'.

    Maybe you are right. Maybe what they are saying is true. But we also know of war's first causality.

    I withhold judgment and remain very skeptical,

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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The fact is that this war is, from an American point of view, illegal. That is a fact.
    And that's relevant to my post how? Or are you just hoping I won't notice you don't actually have a rebuttal? Whoops.


    We've also had little information about what's going on as well as direct lies, i.e. 'boots on the ground'.
    Well it has come out that the CIA does have assets on the ground. But that's not the same as the US military. And honestly, the CIA has assets on the ground everywhere. After all, that is their job.

    Maybe you are right. Maybe what they are saying is true. But we also know of war's first causality.

    I withhold judgment and remain very skeptical,
    Well, I would accept that the US isn't doing much simply because we don't have the money for it. The GOP is finally finding their closet fiscal conservatism after a decade of rampant sailor spending. It's amusing to me how they are now embracing a trait that they systematically purged from their politicians during the Bush years. NATO needed the US for the initial salvo to neutralize defenses. After that they could take over. If the US was really into this, we would have flown the A-10s over months ago. That is the best airframe for this conflict. Excellent close air support and exceptionally hardy.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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