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Thread: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Mostly drones, maybe a little aircraft. Logistics for humanitarian aid probably, we do most of that around the world.
    That you do.. but is that a "war"?

    Last I checked, that's not true. The Brits sent people. IIRC, the French were going to also.
    Nope. The British and French (and Italians and others) sent people to Bengazhi to coordinate strikes and aid, but no trainers. Was yesterday or two days ago, that the British media "exposed" the use of former SAS mercenaries as trainers and so on, hired by the MOD...but paid by Gulf states..
    Last edited by PeteEU; 06-04-11 at 04:43 PM.
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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Listening to the usual suspects on these boards it would seem that the US was doing everything in Libya.... now my question is .... what is the US exactly doing there? I know they are providing logistics for NATO and some command and control functions, but as far as I understand US planes are not in the fight any more or rarely at best... not that many bombing raids any more. Is it the cruise missiles the US are using that people are pissed over?

    The attack copters were British and French. Any "advisor's" on the ground are British former SAS working for a private contractor.. aka mercenaries.

    So what exactly is the US doing in the conflict at the moment?
    Fact is .. we do not know. The Obama Administration has not explained the current "mission". It isn't what it first was, that is for sure. He has ignored Congress. Ignored the War Powers Resolution. Its all part of the new "WTF" campaign.

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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Obama has explained the US mission very clearly: Support our NATO allies as minimally as possible, so that the UN resolution can be realized according to UN and NATO goals. We have not recognized the transitional government, put people on the ground or made any other major move like Euros have.

    He is doing precisely what he said he would do, and what he has consistently explained was the US mission.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 06-04-11 at 04:58 PM.

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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    .......... I also linked one of the few articles that actually quotes a legitimate source the CIA ........
    As Groucho Marx used to say .. "Who are you going to believe, me (the purported CIA note) or your lying eyes" ? BTW, your article never mentions the "CIA".

    Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al-Qaeda links
    25 Mar 2011

    Abdel-Hakim al-Hasidi, the Libyan rebel leader, has said jihadists who fought against allied troops in Iraq are on the front lines of the battle against Muammar Gaddafi's regime.



    more:Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al-Qaeda links - Telegraph
    Your earlier article does say this though:

    A congressional staffer who receives intelligence briefings did not dispute those assessments. But the aide added: "There ought to be a concern and recognition that there may be such a linkage. There should also be an appreciation that the opposition is not a uniform, monolithic movement."
    Last edited by Eighty Deuce; 06-04-11 at 05:01 PM.

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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Fact is .. we do not know. The Obama Administration has not explained the current "mission". It isn't what it first was, that is for sure. He has ignored Congress. Ignored the War Powers Resolution. Its all part of the new "WTF" campaign.
    Sorry but that is bs.

    The Obama administration has explained the current mission. To aid NATO in its mission in Libya by providing logistical support and some command and control functions. What has not been clear is the over all mission of NATO and how far they are willing to go, but that has nothing to do with what the US is providing.

    As for the War Powers Resolution.. does that War Powers Resolution not require an actual war that the US is participating in?... like shooting **** and stuff on a consistent basis? I mean.. is there a requirement to use the War Powers Resolution each time when Bush (and now Obama) used cruise missiles in Pakistan? Or sending in CIA operatives to kidnap/rendition people in Italy, Gambia and other places... yes that is an act of war also.
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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    The article also says this:


    In an interview with the Italian newspaper Il Sole 24 Ore, Mr al-Hasidi admitted that he had recruited "around 25" men from the Derna area in eastern Libya to fight against coalition troops in Iraq. Some of them, he said, are "today are on the front lines in Adjabiya".

    Mr al-Hasidi insisted his fighters "are patriots and good Muslims, not terrorists," but added that the "members of al-Qaeda are also good Muslims and are fighting against the invader"...

    Mr al-Hasidi admitted he had earlier fought against "the foreign invasion" in Afghanistan, before being "captured in 2002 in Peshwar, in Pakistan". He was later handed over to the US, and then held in Libya before being released in 2008.
    So, ~2001 he recruited 25 guys and fought in Afghanistan against the coalition. Now he says some of those guys are fighting in Libya against Gaddafi. He says they are not terrorists. He says that AlQ (note: also, a distinct separation) are good muslims fighting the invaders. Heck, many on this board consider the US to be invaders in Afghan. The only thing really messed up is his view of AlQ as "good muslims". He never says AlQ is among his men or calling any shots (as you claimed). The title of the article is "fighters have AlQ links", not "fighters are AlQ".


    I cannot believe that you use a leader who fought in Afghan and a couple of his dudes to try to support this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    The rebels, who we are providing air support for, have a definite Al Qeada contingent. In Yemen, we aim our bombs at Al Qeada. In Libya, we aim them at the enemies of Al Qeada, as directed by Al Qeada.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 06-04-11 at 05:17 PM.

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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    The article also says this:




    So, ~2001 he recruited 25 guys and fought in Afghanistan against the coalition. Now he says some of those guys are fighting in Libya against Gaddafi. He says they are not terrorists. He says that AlQ (note: also, a distinct separation) are good muslims fighting the invaders. Heck, many on this board consider the US to be invaders in Afghan. The only thing really messed up is his view of AlQ as "good muslims". He never says AlQ is among his men or calling any shots (as you claimed). The title of the article is "fighters have AlQ links", not "fighters are AlQ".


    I cannot believe that you use a leader who fought in Afghan and a couple of his dudes to try to support this:
    "I cannot believe ... blah .. .blah " For starters, it says "Iraq", not Afghanistan. Secondly, if you were really up on the intel, you would know that the second greatest contributor of foreign jihadists to Al Qaeda Iraq was ............. Libya !!!

    Folks, this ain't George Washington, Thomas Payne, Nathaniel Greene, Thomas Jeffereson, etc. The rebels are jihadists. Jihadists against Qaddafi.

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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    As Groucho Marx used to say .. "Who are you going to believe, me (the purported CIA note) or your lying eyes" ? BTW, your article never mentions the "CIA".



    Your earlier article does say this though:
    Are there elements of Al-Qaeda in Libya of course they are every there is a Jihad to be had. Are they in any way influencing polices from the transitional government or actually organized. No. They are a non-entity that is contributing bodies, just like in Iraq.

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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    They are not US helicopters, right?
    No, they're navalized British Apaches. But that fact is clearly lost on partisans.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Some we can regime change, some we can engage economically and diplomatically and some we can influence with foreign aid. Some we can only interact with via proxy (nK). We must weigh each intervention and keep priorities in mind. It is willfully childish to pretend that we can end tyranny tomorrow if only our values were true - we simply cannot.
    So it IS selective 'poutrage' then. Outrage against regime change when it is a republican. Support regime change when it is a democrat. And which country represented a greater threat to both its people and the world at large?

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