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Thread: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    "Its a matter of days, not weeks ............. " Mar 21, 2011.

    "Qaddafi bombed his own people" ..... so did we starting in 1861. Its what happens in a Civil War.

    Can anyone who supports this Libya escapade tell the rest of us which of our vital national interests were threatened in any way ? Heck, a good lie might suffice. Just tell us.

    The rebels, who we are providing air support for, have a definite Al Qeada contingent. In Yemen, we aim our bombs at Al Qeada. In Libya, we aim them at the enemies of Al Qeada, as directed by Al Qeada.

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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    In the 90s where NATO and the UN established no fly-zones and stop the killings (largely). Had we gone in during the 90s, there wouldn't of been much of a valid complaint. Timing matters



    Your facts are a little wrong. The rebels took refuge in towns that tacitly supported their cause and then were bombed and sieged.



    Total war means everyone is a target, that means terrorist can be justified for killing anyone.



    They are not, people obviously haven't been paying attention to international politics or are being willfully ignorant. The helicopters are NATOs and the rebels have been asking for NATO to either give them to the rebels or use them with in a coordinated effort with the rebels. The reason being is that attack helicopters are better for the theater and would cause less collateral damage and/or civilian/rebel casualties.

    Repubs just want to attack Obama for anything. Granted, we should not be directly promoting regime change. I'm not sure if the objectives could have been met any other way though.
    I do love a good liberal spin...

    Saddam NEVER STOPPED brutalizing his people. there were three reasons given to attack Iraq, global ties to terrorism, refussal to comply with UN resolutions regarding the disposition of his known WMD programs, and genocide. Genocide has been a common theme. His republican guard made people disappear on a regular basis.

    We are involved in regime change in Libya. Their country represents aboslutely no threat to the American people. We stepped in it and its up to our knees. Funny tho that even though we as the president says, dont stand for povernments killing their citizens, we havent said **** in Syria, Saudi, Bahrain, Yemen...the hit list goes on. And face it...it doesnt MATTER. He could launch an attack on a girl scout cookie stand and his true believers would find a reason to justify it.

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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    "Qaddafi bombed his own people" ..... so did we starting in 1861. Its what happens in a Civil War.
    Not "bombed". Bombed using the country's air force. If the US bombed US people with airplanes in 1861, you might have a distraction.

    Can anyone who supports this Libya escapade tell the rest of us which of our vital national interests were threatened in any way ? Heck, a good lie might suffice. Just tell us.
    Democratic peace theory

    The rebels, who we are providing air support for, have a definite Al Qeada contingent.
    Citation. Last I checked, they had installed local tribunals and were committed to democracy - this is why the euros recognize them as the government of Libya.

    In Yemen, we aim our bombs at Al Qeada. In Libya, we aim them at the enemies of Al Qeada, as directed by Al Qeada.
    Now I see you're just having fun.


    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Funny tho that even though we as the president says, dont stand for povernments killing their citizens, we havent said **** in Syria, Saudi, Bahrain, Yemen...the hit list goes on.
    Wait a minute. We've said plenty. Check out what Hillary has been saying. Let us not slip into the "everything is possible at the same time" fallacy of foreign policy debate.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 06-04-11 at 04:03 PM.

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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    "Its a matter of days, not weeks ............. " Mar 21, 2011.
    So NATO = US now?

    Can anyone who supports this Libya escapade tell the rest of us which of our vital national interests were threatened in any way ? Heck, a good lie might suffice. Just tell us.
    Vital interest don't always matter. In this case, its not the US's vital interest, but France and UK's that are at the forefront of the military action since a good percentage of their oil comes from or through Libya.

    However, the point was never that America has vital interest in Libya, it was that a dictator was slaughtering his own people and using mercenariness to do it. It was in "America" interest to stop that to score points with the Muslim world.

    This does't mean I support picking a side directly for regime change though. Just explaining.

    The rebels, who we are providing air support for, have a definite Al Qeada contingent.
    Libyan Rebels Al Qaeda | U.S. finds no organized Al Qaeda presence in Libya opposition, officials say - Los Angeles Times

    Also, the rebel government or what ever you want to call it does not have any ties to terrorist.

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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Repubs just want to attack Obama for anything. Granted, we should not be directly promoting regime change. I'm not sure if the objectives could have been met any other way though.
    And Obama provides plenty of fodder...
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Generalizations are stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    The Second Amendment has nothing to do with guns.

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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    However, the point was never that America has vital interest in Libya, it was that a dictator was slaughtering his own people and using mercenariness to do it.
    Obama said it was in our 'national interests' and perhaps 'vital interests' to support our allies in the UN as they intervene to stop a large-scale massacre. His thrust was that it was in our vital interests to support our allies and abide by our treaties to do so, and it was right to do so given the circumstances. He did not link the vital or national interests to Libya directly.

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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Not "bombed". Bombed using the country's air force. If the US bombed US people with airplanes in 1861, you might have a distraction.
    Artillery shells are not "bombs" for those on the receiving end ?

    Citation. Last I checked, they had installed local tribunals and were committed to democracy - this is why the euros recognize them as the government of Libya.
    And what kind of Democracy is that ? Two wolves and a sheep have democracy, do they not ?

    Now I see you're just having fun.
    Having fun being bluntly honest .. you bet !! You can Google up plenty on this. Here's your gimme's. Beyond that, its on you.

    Connections Between Al Qaeda And Libyan Rebels Run Deep Mar 26, 2011

    There’s more evidence today that many of the men engaged in fighting against the Gaddafi regime have ties to an organization that killed 3,000 Americans about 9 1/2 years ago:

    Abdel-Hakim al-Hasidi, the Libyan rebel leader, has said jihadists who fought against allied troops in Iraq are on the front lines of the battle against Muammar Gaddafi’s regime.

    more: Connections Between Al Qaeda And Libyan Rebels Run Deep
    Al Qaeda offers aid to rebels in Libya Feb 24, 2011

    Al Qaeda’s North Africa affiliate publicly offered its assistance and support to rebels in Libya who are fighting to wrest control of the country from troops still loyal to Col. Moammar Gadhafi

    More: Al Qaeda offers aid to rebels in Libya - Washington Times
    Last edited by Eighty Deuce; 06-04-11 at 04:15 PM.

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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Now has troops in country where?
    It was reported about a month ago that we had SOF in Libya training anti-Qadaffi forces.










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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Saddam NEVER STOPPED brutalizing his people. there were three reasons given to attack Iraq, global ties to terrorism, refussal to comply with UN resolutions regarding the disposition of his known WMD programs, and genocide. Genocide has been a common theme. His republican guard made people disappear on a regular basis.
    Genocide against the Kurds stopped in the 90s in part because of the the No-Fly zone and in part because Saddam ran out of chemical weapons we gave him. If we would have backed the souther Shiite uprising in 1996 (not sure if thats the correct date) while enforcing the not fly zone in the north, Saddam would have been nixed then and would not have had the problems it has today (power vacuum wouldn't of existed).

    We are involved in regime change in Libya.
    Never said the government wasn't. Personally, I think it would have been cheaper to simply help the rebels through funding. There are plenty of mercenary outfits that would have loved to have justified regime change on their portfolio.

    We stepped in it and its up to our knees. Funny tho that even though we as the president says, dont stand for povernments killing their citizens, we havent said **** in Syria, Saudi, Bahrain, Yemen...the hit list goes on
    And the realities of the day say that we can't afford to do anymore than what we have or are doing (outside CIA involvement I suppose) for a whole host of reasons.

    But what has Saudi Arabia gov done to its own people lately? All I've herd/read is that its giving money away to try to thwart uprisings.

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    Re: NATO Uses Attack Helicopters for First Time in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post


    Having fun being bluntly honest .. you bet !! You can Google up plenty on this. Here's your gimme's. Beyond that, its on you.
    Cough

    Libyan Rebels Al Qaeda | U.S. finds no organized Al Qaeda presence in Libya opposition, officials say - Los Angeles Times

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    It was reported about a month ago that we had SOF in Libya training anti-Qadaffi forces.
    We are in the British? I've only herd of British "advisers" being in Libya.

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