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Thread: More Job Seekers Give Up

  1. #101
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    Re: More Job Seekers Give Up

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Here is a clue. Stop bashing the corporations you want to hire folks and find collaborative ways for them to hire here. Does it sound as stupid to anyone else that we scream and curse at corporate heads and then wonder why they want to locate elsewhere?


    The Goose That Laid The Golden Egg

    A Man and his Wife had the good fortune to possess a Goose which laid a Golden Egg every day. Lucky though they were, they soon began to think they were not getting rich fast enough, and, imagining the bird must be made of gold inside, they decided to kill it in order to secure the whole store of precious metal at once. But when they cut it open they found it was just like any other goose. Thus, they neither got rich all at once, as they had hoped, nor enjoyed any longer the daily addition to their wealth.

    Much wants more and loses all.

  2. #102
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    Re: More Job Seekers Give Up

    more lessons for children:

    The Emperor's New Clothes by Hans Christian Andersen (1805-75) adapted by Stephen Corrin in Stories for Seven-Year-Olds. London 1964

    None of the Emperor's clothes had ever met with such success.

    But among the crowds a little child suddenly gasped out, "But he hasn't got anything on." And the people began to whisper to one another what the child had said. "He hasn't got anything on." "There's a little child saying he hasn't got anything on." Till everyone was saying, "But he hasn't got anything on." The Emperor himself had the uncomfortable feeling that what they were whispering was only too true. "But I will have to go through with the procession," he said to himself.

    So he drew himself up and walked boldly on holding his head higher than before, and the courtiers held on to the train that wasn't there at all.
    the adult version: Economy in U.S. Grew 1.8% in First Quarter - Bloomberg

  3. #103
    Professor xpiher's Avatar
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    Re: More Job Seekers Give Up

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    unless you'd prefer to consult some pizza guy
    hes running for president. He should have a rough idea on how he'll handle the hows and tell us about them.

  4. #104
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    Re: More Job Seekers Give Up

    tell it to the president

    tell it to kent conrad

    in times like these

    if something isn't done imminently to fundamentally reform our big 3 federal programs (as well as state pensions), they will cease to exist as we know them for our next generation

    770 days...

    and counting

    leadership, anyone?

  5. #105
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    Re: More Job Seekers Give Up

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    and you think that regulation by agency capture is better?
    In some cases yes.

    ponzi schemes aren't an argument for or against the glass-steagle act. you know better.
    I didn't argue that. I argued that basically regulation failed on so many levels, including but not limited to the GSA.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  6. #106
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    Re: More Job Seekers Give Up

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Default swaps and mortgage derivatives as a percentage of trading skyrocketed and became a problem AFTER the CRA sponsored legislation and debt engineering.
    This doesn't make much sense in blaming the CRA as CRA banks have always been relatively small bit players in the total market. Furthermore, CDS of the large scary kind are not issued within the banking sector in the first place on mortgages. I think you are confusing corrolation with causation.

    Saying when they started is a good talking point but knowing when they became a large enough portion of the market is whats important, not when they started. They became big business AFTER CRA.
    But as the CRA didn't cover the players issuing them how can you reasonably say it's the CRA's fault? How can the legislation be at fault when the legislation didn't apply to the players?

    You are not a lender. All loans carry a risk assessment. An assessment that near disappears when backed by Fannie May and Freddie Mac because as GSAs it was always assured that the loans were government backed---directly or indirectly. A lender knows damn good and well what the default chances are on a loan when they write it, the kicker is whether it is backed by another entity or not. With FM backing they had never had the gigantic default issues they are experiencing now.
    But that doesn't address my point. There were always subprime mortgages out there. Fannie and Freddie never had sizable portions on their books. They kept to prime and jumbo loans.

    AIG certainly is at fault, the government is also at fault not just for regulating a structure to make those types of transactions legal but through administration process making them preferrable to a certain extent if it was covering mortgage derivatives and FM backed debt. AIG never expected nominally backed mortgages to collapse in the way they did.
    Which is why I blame them. No company should issue potential liability that it doesn't have the assets to cover even a fraction of. Even if they never expected nominally backed mortgages to collapse, they should have been at least able to cover a decent size of their CDS liability. They didn't. Seems like eternal optimism sprung at AIG. Also remember that most of the bad CDS came out of a single department in AIG's London office which had a toxic corporate culture of selling at all costs with 50% bonus structure based on sales. It's amazing that a tiny portion of the company nearly bought the behemoth down.

    LOL of course they did...a mortgage derivative is what someone says a group of bundled mortgages is supposedly worth, how in the name of god can you assume it going to be worth anything without individual risk assessment? You cannot but it didnt matter because the government had its paws all over the mortgage market with CRA guidelines ensuring that the loans were made and had to written off someway, somehow. Its easy to see now it was a terrible practice, but at that point it was all the rage to push home ownership for votes---on both sides of the aisle.
    You appear to be confusing the CRA and the rating agencies. I'll let you sort that out.

    You seem to want to push all the blame for this onto the companies.
    Considering how small the CRA was in total to the aggregate mortgage much less the unrelated CDS market, yes it is mostly company's fault's. True the government basically didn't do any regulation at all, which does make them complicit.

    Well I dont agree with that as I know the corporate cronyism was alive and well---the influx into the housing market walked hand in hand with government legislation pushing risky loans and when you run anything by positive feedback eventually it goes out of control.
    True, but that's not the CRA's fault. You seem to be unaware of the reduction in home ownership obstacles under the Bush administration. That's not CRA related.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  7. #107
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    Re: More Job Seekers Give Up

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Not really, but I know how you are. So, I'll consider the source.
    Yeah. I check my facts. You don't. Ever.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  8. #108
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    Re: More Job Seekers Give Up

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Yeah. I check my facts. You don't. Ever.
    You rarely post anymore than your flawed opinion.

  9. #109
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    Re: More Job Seekers Give Up

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    This doesn't make much sense in blaming the CRA as CRA banks have always been relatively small bit players in the total market. Furthermore, CDS of the large scary kind are not issued within the banking sector in the first place on mortgages. I think you are confusing corrolation with causation.
    Untrue. Washington Mutual collapsed due to their exposure in this market. They were the 4th largest bank at the time. Its hard to PROVE causation but if you remove what you think is the cause and it stops...well, there you are.



    But as the CRA didn't cover the players issuing them how can you reasonably say it's the CRA's fault? How can the legislation be at fault when the legislation didn't apply to the players?
    Because it did. In 95 banks were required to meet a certain percentage of LMI (Low and Moderate Income) customers to meet CRA standards as required by regulators and could then also not refuse loans to more qualified customers who were only slightly better off but not up to previous standards of financial stability.



    But that doesn't address my point. There were always subprime mortgages out there. Fannie and Freddie never had sizable portions on their books. They kept to prime and jumbo loans.
    In 2007 Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were required to show that 55% of their loans were LMIs. From 2005 to 2007, Fannie and Freddie bought approximately $1 trillion in sub-prime and Alt-A loans. This amounted to about 40 percent of their mortgage purchases during that period. Seems sizable to me.

    Which is why I blame them. No company should issue potential liability that it doesn't have the assets to cover even a fraction of. Even if they never expected nominally backed mortgages to collapse, they should have been at least able to cover a decent size of their CDS liability. They didn't. Seems like eternal optimism sprung at AIG. Also remember that most of the bad CDS came out of a single department in AIG's London office which had a toxic corporate culture of selling at all costs with 50% bonus structure based on sales. It's amazing that a tiny portion of the company nearly bought the behemoth down.
    But that doesnt explain CountryWide, Lehmen Bros, or Washington Mutual. The CDS were a symptom, the toxic loans were the true problem.




    Considering how small the CRA was in total to the aggregate mortgage much less the unrelated CDS market, yes it is mostly company's fault's. True the government basically didn't do any regulation at all, which does make them complicit.
    Just the opposite, they regulated riskier loans and relaxed standards, they encouraged and enforced them. Maybe you cant see it but government incentives drove all the stupid reckless behavior. If they couldnt make money off it and it were not encouraged by legislation and regulation, they wouldnt have done it. Banks dont just start making risky loans.



    True, but that's not the CRA's fault. You seem to be unaware of the reduction in home ownership obstacles under the Bush administration. That's not CRA related.
    From 2003 to late 2006, conventional loans (including jumbo loans) declined from 78.8 percent to 50.1 percent of all mortgages, while subprime and Alt-A loans increased from 10.1 percent to 32.7 percent. Because GSEpurchases are not included in these numbers, in the years just before the collapse of home prices began, about half of all home loans being made in the United States were non-prime loans. Since these mortgages aggregate more than $2 trillion, this accounts for the weakness in bank assets that is the principal underlying cause of the current financial crisis.

    Personally, sounds to me like you think it was all the greedy bankers. It wasnt just that. It was the bankers, brokers, regulators, terrible housing policy, and paid for polticians all responsible. I still feel that the government representatives didnt pay enough and the banks should have been allowed to fail.

  10. #110
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    Re: More Job Seekers Give Up

    today: Chronic unemployment worse than Great Depression - CBS Evening News - CBS News

    There is an unfortunate adage for the unemployed: The longer folks are out of a job, the longer it takes them to find a new one.

    CBS News correspondent Ben Tracy reports that the chronically unemployed face the hardest road back to recovery, and that while the jobs picture may be improving statistically on a national level, it is not for them.

    About 6.2 million Americans, 45.1 percent of all unemployed workers in this country, have been jobless for more than six months - a higher percentage than during the Great Depression.

    The bigger the gap on someone's resume, the more questions employers have.

    Here's another problem: more than 1 million of the long-term unemployed have run out of unemployment benefits, leaving them without the money to get new training, buy new clothes, or even get to job interviews.

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