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Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

CriticalThought said:
Decriminalized means that you aren't sent to prison for doing it, it doesn't mean that it is legal to do it.

For example, speeding is decriminalized. It isn't legal to speed, but you can be fined for speeding.
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Wrong, traffic tickets are actually misdemeanors. The lowest level misdemeanor there is, but still. Don't believe me? Try not paying one.
 
X Factor said:
Wrong, traffic tickets are actually misdemeanors. The lowest level misdemeanor there is, but still. Don't believe me? Try not paying one.
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In a literal sense, decriminalization means that it is illegal but that the law is not strictly enforced. I prefer to just reduce the penalties down to fines and taxes.
 
CriticalThought said:
In a literal sense, decriminalization means that it is illegal but that the law is not strictly enforced. I prefer to just reduce the penalties down to fines and taxes.
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So, you think peddling drugs should be nothing more than a traffic ticket.
 
Ikari said:
Because time and effort can be best spent elsewhere.

I wonder what the results of a drug test on all of Congress would produce.
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The results probably wouldn't look good for this guy.:rofl


 
CriticalThought said:
It's simple logic. You take the poorest group of people who at the same time are addicted to drugs and you take the money away that they have been using to support their habit. Do you think they are magically going to be cured of their drug habits? Do you think that they are just going to be able to up and quit? These are not people who can afford treatment. These are people who will likely steal, prostitute, gamble, or whatever it takes to get their fix. They are going to end up in prison where the tax payers will end up paying a lot more. Heck, the drug tests aren't free either. That will cost tax payers quite substantially as well.

It would be better to offer substance abuse treatment if they are going to test them.
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As I am a proponent of legalization of all, then such as me usually favor treatment over incarceration. I do, but recognize that implementation of such will be by small steps, and take time.

However, your argument still lacks any fundamental merit, and there is no "simple logic" to it. You base it on a completely unsupported distinction that those druggies who get free money from government are somehow less of a problem to themselves, and the rest of us, than those who do not get free money. That implies some discipline from them regarding free stuff and their habit. There is no such expectation. They will take and abuse to the fullest extent possible, for if they had adequate self-control, they would not be targets here. Your "simple logic" is 100% folly IMMHO.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
As I am a proponent of legalization of all, then such as me usually favor treatment over incarceration. I do, but recognize that implementation of such will be by small steps, and take time.

However, your argument still lacks any fundamental merit, and there is no "simple logic" to it. You base it on a completely unsupported distinction that those druggies who get free money from government are somehow less of a problem to themselves, and the rest of us, than those who do not get free money. That implies some discipline from them regarding free stuff and their habit. There is no such expectation. They will take and abuse to the fullest extent possible, for if they had adequate self-control, they would not be targets here. Your "simple logic" is 100% folly IMMHO.
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I never suggested that drug abusers who are on welfare are any less of a problem for themselves or others than drug abusers who are not on welfare. Of course you can't see the logic of my argument if you interject things I never said.
 
My take on this issue is if my husband and I are both required to be drug tested at least once a year to get money from the government, then so should welfare recipients. Especially in my own case where I am in the Navy reserve which means most of my money comes from showing up and ensuring paperwork is good to go for me one weekend a month and doing actual work for about 3-4 consecutive weeks once a year. Don't get me wrong, I don't use drugs and don't really have a problem with being drug tested randomly (and the Navy definitely observes, unlike the civilian test I had where I got to close the door and was just told not to run any water or flush the toilet), but it does seem kind of unfair that we have to be drug tested to receive money to perform work for the government, but those who receive money from the government as assistance, don't.
 
CriticalThought said:
I never suggested that drug abusers who are on welfare are any less of a problem for themselves or others than drug abusers who are not on welfare. Of course you can't see the logic of my argument if you interject things I never said.
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Never said you did. This is what I responded to:

It's simple logic. You take the poorest group of people who at the same time are addicted to drugs and you take the money away that they have been using to support their habit. Do you think they are magically going to be cured of their drug habits? Do you think that they are just going to be able to up and quit?
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Your "simple logic" does not matter with regard to being an argument against this new procedure here in Florida. I am not saying that the druggie gets better or worse. I am saying it is irrelevant, and that a part of the process is to eliminate the druggie from the loop of government help hopefully flowing to the druggie's dependents.
 
The governor, his staff, the lady in the courthouse cafeteria, the attorney general, his aides and staff, the mayors, the county and municipal workers also live on my tax dollar. Piss test them too.
 
Captain America said:
The governor, his staff, the lady in the courthouse cafeteria, the attorney general, his aides and staff, the mayors, the county and municipal workers also live on my tax dollar. Piss test them too.
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I agree with this too. In fact, I think all government personnel, including those elected to office should be required to be drug tested as well.
 
CriticalThought said:
Decriminalized means that you aren't sent to prison for doing it, it doesn't mean that it is legal to do it.

For example, speeding is decriminalized. It isn't legal to speed, but you can be fined for speeding.
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I hate to tell you bro, but you're wrong. If something is decriminalized, it is legal.

WordNet Search - 3.1

(legislation that makes something legal that was formerly illegal)
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X Factor said:
Way to cheapen the true horror of slavery. :roll:
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Being forced to work without pay is slavery. Being tossed into solitary confinement or facing retribution for not working is also slavery. I don't care if they're inmates or not. A lot of prisons don't pay their inmates for the work they do, it's just made to seem like it's part of the penance.
 
Badmutha said:
Time for the Slobs sucking the Democrat provided Social Teet in Florida........

.......... to get a job......or start buying their own smack.......hopefully both.
.
.
.
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What an educated and informed response! What jobs should the unemployed Floridians "get"?
 
roguenuke said:
My take on this issue is if my husband and I are both required to be drug tested at least once a year to get money from the government, then so should welfare recipients. Especially in my own case where I am in the Navy reserve which means most of my money comes from showing up and ensuring paperwork is good to go for me one weekend a month and doing actual work for about 3-4 consecutive weeks once a year. Don't get me wrong, I don't use drugs and don't really have a problem with being drug tested randomly (and the Navy definitely observes, unlike the civilian test I had where I got to close the door and was just told not to run any water or flush the toilet), but it does seem kind of unfair that we have to be drug tested to receive money to perform work for the government, but those who receive money from the government as assistance, don't.
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Ma'am, you in my humble opinion are different than most Americans. You have chosen to serve your country. The vast majority of Americans have not. Most Americans won't make that sacrifice, wouldn't raise their right hands and couldn't pass the security clearance. You are not like most Americans. You represent the very best this country has to offer. Many chose to wave the flag, but you have chosen to carry it and to serve under it. You have a taste for freedom that the protected will never know.

You had to be vetted to serve and you must be vetted to continue to serve. Your Congressman and women and their staff do NOT take the drug tests you are required to take.

People who now require public assistance do not require a security clearance. They do not serve in the ARMED Forces. They cannot be deployed. They will not be asked to die for their nation. You volunteered. They didn't. You're responsible to a nation. They are trying to stay healthy and alive.

So we have people who haven't done jack for America demanding that veterans in dire straits shut the hell up and stop asking for assistance. There's something wrong with that.
 
Captain America said:
The governor, his staff, the lady in the courthouse cafeteria, the attorney general, his aides and staff, the mayors, the county and municipal workers also live on my tax dollar. Piss test them too.
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I may have heard wrong but I think all government workers are required to take a drug test now. Urine test are very expensive compared to cotton swab test. I think what they could do is find a middle ground and randomly test people for drug use. If one area tends to get a higher percentage of drug use coming through, step up the frequency of the random drug cotton swab test in that area. This to me seems likely a more financially effective of enforcing this law and is much less humiliating.
 
I don't have a problem with drug-testing welfare recipients... so long as every person in the state who also receives taxpayer money is also drug tested. Do it across the board, or don't do it at all. It would be economic discrimination.

That said, the International Commission on The Global War On Drugs has finally issued the report that should have been issued decades ago. The commission admits that we have lost the war, and that the war itself has enabled global crime cartels to multiply and prosper. The commission also suggests most drugs be made legal and regulated, citing that as the most effective way to cause most criminal drug enterprises to immediately implode. These are not novices on the international stage, either. They are well-respected global players who have served in the IMF, world banks, the highest financial and economic posts around the world.

Legalize drugs, regulate them, problem solved. I've said that for over a decade. Now folks high enough to be taken seriously are saying the same thing. Good for them.
 
Captain America said:
The governor, his staff, the lady in the courthouse cafeteria, the attorney general, his aides and staff, the mayors, the county and municipal workers also live on my tax dollar. Piss test them too.
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What ? "Live on the tax dollar" ? All state employees must earn a paycheck. They have performance standards they must meet daily lest they face potential loss of their jobs. They are evaluated daily by whoever is their boss. Admittedly, the Governor answers to just about no one, but are we now equating him to someone on the welfare dole ?

Did you even read the posts ? Did you not notice that a goal of this law is to get druggies out of the chain of handling of money and benefits that flows from the state to their dependents ? This will enable the state, in a situation such as where a druggie has three dependent children, to where the druggie no longer gets the funds, but where a responsible adult can be designated to manage the funds and assistance to the kids still.

Bottom line: We aren't going to finance crack-heads if we can help it.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
What ? "Live on the tax dollar" ? All state employees must earn a paycheck. They have performance standards they must meet daily lest they face potential loss of their jobs. They are evaluated daily by whoever is their boss. Admittedly, the Governor answers to just about no one, but are we now equating him to someone on the welfare dole ?

Did you even read the posts ? Did you not notice that a goal of this law is to get druggies out of the chain of handling of money and benefits that flows from the state to their dependents ? This will enable the state, in a situation such as where a druggie has three dependent children, to where the druggie no longer gets the funds, but where a responsible adult can be designated to manage the funds and assistance to the kids still.

Bottom line: We aren't going to finance crack-heads if we can help it.
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I get it. It's apples and oranges but still bought with the same dollar. Test them all.
 
Captain America said:
I get it. It's apples and oranges but still bought with the same dollar. Test them all.
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I think we should go further than that. Test the oil company CEOs and the banksters before we give them more corporate welfare money.
 
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