Page 7 of 29 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 287

Thread: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

  1. #61
    Global Moderator
    I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

    CaptainCourtesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    152,711

    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    This would be manged under the "CaptainCourtesy Ending The War On Drugs Plan". Some of you have read about this before. I will not go into the entirety of the plan, just the basics:

    Current "illegal" drugs are legalized. All violations that would pertain to alcohol, apply, such as driving under the influence. Employers, of course, have the right to fire anyone who "works under the influence". All drugs are taxed by the government... similar to cigarettes. All tax monies go into a fund for substance abuse treatment. One of the flaws with Scott's plan, and one of the problems with addicts becoming clean is the cost of substance abuse treatment. A 30 day stay in a facility can cost upwards of $25,000... sometimes to start. If an addict wants treatment, they receive an evaluation to determine whether they would qualify under the government subsidy. Things like history (have they had failed treatment attempts), motivation, and perhaps their own financial ability would be assessed. If they qualify, the substance abuse fund will cover their treatment. Under this welfare policy, since these folks would be receive government money because of need, either they would agree to attend treatment (again, covered by the fund) or their benefit would be eliminated. If they have children, their children would have a "designate" who would manage their money.

    This helps resolve two issues: the war on drugs and the problem with substance abuse.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  2. #62
    Sage
    CriticalThought's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 08:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    18,125

    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    That's not a "downside", that's called "welcome to the real world".

    FEWER people suffer under the Mayor's program, and, eventually, in the long term, fewer die. Think of it as evolution in action.
    Evolution is the adaptation of species to their environment over several generations. You are referring to natural selection, which even in this case is poorly argued since your program would do little to decrease the reproductive capabilities of drug abusers. At best, you are arguing a Social Darwinist view that only those of merit should survive.

    An addict's worth is non-existent. Think of it as voluntary culling. Those addicts strong enough to realizethe danger will seek help to desist. Those lacking the strength to resist will succumb to the lure and voluntarily erase his burden on the people.
    People make poor choices. People can also recover from poor choices given the right opportunities. To realize this is to be kind. Kindness is the act of helping people help themselves. Kindness is also a trait that takes a lifetime to develop and not one you seemed to have valued. Humans are social animals and we are inherently empathetic. We evolved to want to help our fellow tribe members survive and prosper so that we could look out for one another. A cohesive tribe is a tribe that survives and a divided tribe is a tribe that falls. Humans are not an individual animal. We cannot survive as isolated individuals. We need each other. We support each other. That is what it means to be human. If you cast that aside, then you are little more than an animal hoarding away until you die.

    There is no such thing as a free society because we all have our obligations. Our obligations to our families, to our communities, to our friends, to our colleagues, and so forth. Who we are is shaped by how we fulfill those obligations.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 06-02-11 at 05:42 AM.

  3. #63
    White trash on dope.
    d0gbreath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Denton, TX
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    8,875

    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    It's nice that they are giving hardcore alcoholics a pass. I guess they are telling welfare recipients to switch to fortified wine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


  4. #64
    don't panic
    marduc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Last Seen
    10-22-17 @ 04:10 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,301

    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    It's nice that they are giving hardcore alcoholics a pass. I guess they are telling welfare recipients to switch to fortified wine.
    That has been my thinking on this as well. I don't necessarily have a problem with making sure welfare money is used strictly for necessities, but be consistent about it. No alcohol, no tobacco at the least if we are going to be banning drug use. No plasma TV's, no trips to the amusement park, no expensive sets of rims, and so on would help for consistency as well.
    Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
    Drugs are bad, prohibition is worse

  5. #65
    Student
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    07-15-12 @ 10:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    255

    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    I'm going to add two responses to this debate from my friends,

    More than 95% of people who would receive the aid have never had a drug problem in their lives, but they are being made to take a drug test JUST because they are poor which is beyond ridiculous. If you're going to use this reasoning then why don't we drug test all college students before they receive financial aid so we can make sure we're not funding their drug habits with our federal dollars in scholarship disbursements. Moreover most of the people receiving the aid make $250 or less a month, and if the drug test costs $70 or even $10 (because the bill is not clear what drugs will be tested for) then even that can be too much when they have to pay rent and put food on the table.
    It's actually 97%.

    And by the logic that some of your Facebook friends, the government should come and inspect your home before your child can go to public school. Why aren't we ONLY testing the people who actually HAVE a history of drugs? Why are we testing EVERYONE?

    So much for innocent until proven guilty.
    I will withhold my comments on these two statements until I hear a little about what you all say. I have not responded to them as I wish to remain friends with them.

    Republicans drive me crazy sometimes. They trumpet this "small government" crap all the time yet they're the ones who push policies like this, policies like the PATRIOT Act, policies that bring Big Brother to our doorstep and actually into our homes.


    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    That has been my thinking on this as well. I don't necessarily have a problem with making sure welfare money is used strictly for necessities, but be consistent about it. No alcohol, no tobacco at the least if we are going to be banning drug use. No plasma TV's, no trips to the amusement park, no expensive sets of rims, and so on would help for consistency as well.
    I agree but it would take a MASSIVE amount of people to make sure that is not happening. I really don't think that too much of that is going on though, or am I just being an optimist? What percentage of people do you all think are abusing the money?

  6. #66
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Redneck Riviera
    Last Seen
    07-09-11 @ 06:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,728

    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    The idea is also discriminatory against poor people.
    Receiving welfare is a voluntary process, so your point above is moot. If you are a poor person who doesn't wish to be drug tested, don't apply for AFDC.

    I don't know if you know what AFDC stands for, but it isn't for generalized welfare. It's "Aid for Dependent Children." The money isn't to support women who can't or won't work, it's to support the children and infants who are dependent on those adults. The money should be directed to the wellbeing of the children, and not to crack, meth, mj, or oxycontin.

    I've worked with a lot of families over the years, both in poor rural areas and in poor urban areas. You'd be surprised how often AFDC is used to support mom's drug/alcohol/cigarette habit. Let's not discriminate. The funds also shouldn't be paying for cigarettes and booze, so we should probably test for those substances, as well.

    In my opinion, this doesn't go far enough. Adults who are receiving AFDC should be required to participate in parent/teacher conferences at school, volunteer at the local school, and complete classes in budgeting/finance, food preparation, and employment readiness. Their children should maintain a minimum attendance level (I'd suggest 90%, since after all, we are paying mom to stay home and raise children, so getting them to school should be no problem).

    AFDC should be a temporary measure and should be designed to have a longterm impact on poverty. I have zero problems with the war on poverty, but the implementation of poverty-alleviating measures is seriously flawed and has actually become an enabler for many lifestyle choices that are extremely detrimental to children. If we wanted to end poverty, we would work harder on the roots of poverty, which include lack of educational skills or achievement, poor financial choices, poor healty/dietary choices, and lack of employability.

    AFDC was never designed to be a lifestyle, but many of the individuals who are longterm recipients were once teen parents and are functionally illiterate. Their employment options are limited and many are trapped in cycles of drug/alcohol dependency, which makes them even less employable.

    That money goes out to families to take care of children, but in many cases, it is misused. And, that's a damned shame.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 06-02-11 at 10:47 AM.

  7. #67
    don't panic
    marduc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Last Seen
    10-22-17 @ 04:10 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,301

    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    Quote Originally Posted by lovetosing4678 View Post
    I agree but it would take a MASSIVE amount of people to make sure that is not happening. I really don't think that too much of that is going on though, or am I just being an optimist? What percentage of people do you all think are abusing the money?
    Would it be that hard to issue a plastic card or set up a welfare account that could only be used for food, housing expenses, transportation costs, and medical treatment?

    Is there a potential for abuse, always and in all things, but not compared to just sending a check in the mail which can then be converted to cash with ease. This way welfare money can be used strictly to insure an individuals or a family's welfare. If they have other money that they earn, there is no way to really control how that gets spent, other than enforcing income reporting measures and insuring that the amount of assistance available is tied to that (ideally on a month by month basis). This leaves money under the table, side jobs, illegal income ect. this we cannot control all that much, but controlling where the welfare money goes, and the limit of money according to legitimate reported income would account for the majority of recipients, and take care of a lions share of waste and inappropriate allocation of funds.
    Last edited by marduc; 06-02-11 at 10:46 AM.
    Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
    Drugs are bad, prohibition is worse

  8. #68
    Sewer Rat
    Risky Thicket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:31 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    23,803

    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Then, most people don't have to worry about losing their bennies. We can just cut off the ones that are buying dope on our dime. Which mean, that it will be easier to provide bennies to the folks who really need them. Sounds like a win-win to me.
    I'm sorry, but it seems that you may have used a debilitating cocktail of drugs before you stumbled upon your current position, such that it is. Why do I think that you must be a TSA ball handler who works at the airport in Baton Rouge groping thousands upon thousands to catch one. That's the new America, isn't it? Guilty until proven innocent. That's growth industry, Big Brother. You obviously like fascism and want to see more of your money going to support state paranoia.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  9. #69
    Student
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    07-15-12 @ 10:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    255

    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    Would it be that hard to issue a plastic card or set up a welfare account that could only be used for food, housing expenses, transportation costs, and medical treatment?

    Is there a potential for abuse, always and in all things, but not compared to just sending a check in the mail which can then be converted to cash with ease. This way welfare money can be used strictly to insure an individuals or a family's welfare. If they have other money that they earn, there is no way to really control how that gets spent, other than enforcing income reporting measures and insuring that the amount of assistance available is tied to that (ideally on a month by month basis). This leaves money under the table, side jobs, illegal income ect. this we cannot control all that much, but controlling where the welfare money goes, and the limit of money according to legitimate reported income would account for the majority of recipients, and take care of a lions share of waste and inappropriate allocation of funds.
    That honestly does sound like a good idea, but how do you ensure that it is only being used for food, transportation etc. You can buy almost anything at Walmart which is where most poor people buy their groceries. How do you discern what part of purchases is food and what part is the flat screen TV? Limit the amount they can spend at one time? The others are easier to see that it is being used properly but still somewhat hard. Otherwise sounds like a great plan, why don't we do it?

  10. #70
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Seen
    08-14-12 @ 11:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    3,928

    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    It's simple logic. You take the poorest group of people who at the same time are addicted to drugs and you take the money away that they have been using to support their habit. Do you think they are magically going to be cured of their drug habits? Do you think that they are just going to be able to up and quit? These are not people who can afford treatment. These are people who will likely steal, prostitute, gamble, or whatever it takes to get their fix. They are going to end up in prison where the tax payers will end up paying a lot more.

    I'm not saying that this was a good or bad move, simply pointing out the reality of where this is going. Every action in the war on drugs ends with more people in prison and more tax dollar money going to pay for it.

    Also, Scott is going to profit off this immensely. Drug tests are not free. My employer paid $30 for my last one. They are also dehumanizing. Can you imagine having someone watch you take piss just so you could get money for food?
    This is quite literally the most absurd argument I've ever heard on this board.

    So what you're telling me is that, by threat of these people becoming criminals, the taxpayer should subsidize their drug habit? What kind of convoluted logic is that? Why stop at drugs? Why not alcohol? If you deprive a drunk of his wine money, will he turn to crime? Well, if either of the above cases turns to crime, then they will be locked up. It will be a choice they have to make.

    Either way though, the monetary burden isn't on the taxpayer. I'd rather pay to keep them locked up than pay to keep them high on drugs. But that's just me.

Page 7 of 29 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •