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Thread: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

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    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Or we could be intelligent about this. Not eveyone on welfare is there because they aren't looking for a job; particularly now with high unemployment and an unresponsive government. So the reason they're on welfare is they have a job and more times than not can't find one. So submit, or get tossed onto the street where it will now become even harder to get a job than before. Your Catch 22 is pretty unreasonable. The choice you want people to have is to live on the streets or accept unreasonable government force against them. As I said, not much of a choice. Pretty stupid when you think about it.
    Wow ! Just Wow !! Submitting to, and then passing, a drug test, so as to suck at the government teat, is now "unreasonable government force". Forget that it is a process that seeks to be sure dependents of those on government aid actually may benefit where a drug-using recipient had been a part of the process.

    Of course, having to submit to a drug test so as to get a job at any one of a thousand places must "be unreasonable non-government force".

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    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And again, your catch 22. It's dumb. It's against the point of having this stupid system. Welfare exists, it's their money once they recieve it. You no longer have a say in the matter. I'm not going to go after a handful of poor folk "milking" the system (I'm not sure what the numbers are, but I think most people on welfare would rather not be on welfare) because some people have a stick up their ass about some poor jerks doing drugs. We give away money to other people like candy and don't require any of this. But the poor folk, well we can do whatever the hell we want to them because they're poor. Unbelieveable. If we're going to have welfare as a system designed to help the less fortunate in times of need; then that's it. That's how it needs to work. The government still does not have rightful power to search these people nor deny them assistance on the results of that illegal search.
    Of course, if you had a derelict adult sibling, who could not hold a job, much less find a new one, because they were a substance abuser, and they came to you for money, you would have no basis upon which to say "no". In fact, not having any extra money yourself would not be an adequate excuse. You would be obligated to give, to expect no minimal performance standards, and to take on the debt.

    Let's add an additional wrinkle. You have a second sibling, down and out, but not on drugs, and very much legitimately enduring hardship through no fault of their own. You have been helping them. Now you have to reduce that, so as to be able to help the bum. Forever. Regardless.

    OPM (Other people's money) sure does switch things up at times
    Last edited by Eighty Deuce; 06-03-11 at 01:16 PM.

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    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    But, it's my money before they receive it and I say that some of them shouldn't be getting it.
    You can say that all you want. But the government took it and the government deals it out and the government is limited in the manners which it can act in against our rights and liberties.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Of course, if you had a derelict adult sibling, who could not hold a job, much less find a new one, because they were a substance abuser, and they came to you for money, you would have no basis upon which to say "no". In fact, not having any extra money yourself would not be an adequate excuse. You would be obligated to give, to expect no minimal performance standards, and to take on the debt.

    Let's add an additional wrinkle. You have a second sibling, down and out, but not on drugs, and very much legitimately enduring hardship through no fault of their own. You have been helping them. Now you have to reduce that, so as to be able to help the bum. Forever. Regardless.

    OPM (Other people's money) sure does switch things up at times
    I'm an individual, not the government.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Wow ! Just Wow !! Submitting to, and then passing, a drug test, so as to suck at the government teat, is now "unreasonable government force". Forget that it is a process that seeks to be sure dependents of those on government aid actually may benefit where a drug-using recipient had been a part of the process.
    It is an unreasonable search, the individual has right to secure their person against unreasonable search. So yes, it is unreasonable government force. Just accepting a welfare check does not abdicate any of our freedoms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Of course, having to submit to a drug test so as to get a job at any one of a thousand places must "be unreasonable non-government force".
    It could be, depending on how invasive the test is. Of course, there is less restriction on non-government (private) force than government force.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You can say that all you want. But the government took it and the government deals it out and the government is limited in the manners which it can act in against our rights and liberties.
    Drug testing is not infringing on anyones rights or liberties. Drugs are at this time illegal.

    If the SCOTUS says mandatory drug testing in middle and high school is OK, what does that tell you about this situation?
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    I dont see anything wrong with the government putting stipulations on welfare. Some will say its an unreasonable government force, but people would be submitting to the drug testing so its not forced. Saying they have to choose between the unreasonable force or living on the street to me is the wrong viewpoint. They would have to choose between drugs and food/housing for themselves and their families. If you arent willing to piss in a cup to support your family then you don't need to have tax money supporting you.

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    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It is an unreasonable search, the individual has right to secure their person against unreasonable search. So yes, it is unreasonable government force. Just accepting a welfare check does not abdicate any of our freedoms.
    And what is your basis for this ? Applying for welfare, instead of relying on a family member for help (my example about you) is a voluntary action. Just as is attempting to gain a job that requires drug testing, background checks, etc. So please provide some credible basis. Or is it just some feel-good opinion ?

    It could be, depending on how invasive the test is. Of course, there is less restriction on non-government (private) force than government force.
    Was there any reason to asume it was a different test ? Assume the same basic test.

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    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post

    And what is your basis for this ? Applying for welfare, instead of relying on a family member for help (my example about you) is a voluntary action. Just as is attempting to gain a job that requires drug testing, background checks, etc. So please provide some credible basis. Or is it just some feel-good opinion ?

    Was there any reason to asume it was a different test ? Assume the same basic test.
    I thought Conservatives were against bigger government, against government spending, and against government intrusion? Why is it they are now championing this measure which increases government, increases spending, and increases government intrusion?

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    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    I thought Conservatives were against bigger government, against government spending, and against government intrusion? Why is it they are now championing this measure which increases government, increases spending, and increases government intrusion?
    Government intrusion? Nobody is making you get welfare
    "I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." -Thomas Sowell

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