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Thread: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

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    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Because it's government granted assistance. It's not a job you're doing. You're not applying for a position. I'd like to keep constant monitoring of the People by the government to the smallest value possible.
    I understand why you would want to keep government monitoring to a minimum. In this case though, it is tax payer money going out, so they have an interest in it being used for what it is intended. I have seen way too many sell stamps at .50 on the dollar for drugs. It is sickening. So in this case, I have to go with "do it" as the infrastructure is already in place with other government positions at all levels.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I understand why you would want to keep government monitoring to a minimum. In this case though, it is tax payer money going out, so they have an interest in it being used for what it is intended. I have seen way too many sell stamps at .50 on the dollar for drugs. It is sickening. So in this case, I have to go with "do it" as the infrastructure is already in place with other government positions at all levels.
    I'd take it as a consequence of our system and economics. If they're selling them for drugs...well we gave them those stamps and once they have them; they are theirs to do with as they like. If we have a system like welfare, stuff like this is bound to happen. But that's the end all of it. I don't want to start excusing gross data storage and gathering and monitoring by the government of the People. Government cannot be trusted with the power it wields and will almost always abuse it. And for something like constant monitoring of people in general, people not being charged with crime; well I'd much rather err on the side of liberty on this one.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I'd take it as a consequence of our system and economics. If they're selling them for drugs...well we gave them those stamps and once they have them; they are theirs to do with as they like. If we have a system like welfare, stuff like this is bound to happen. But that's the end all of it. I don't want to start excusing gross data storage and gathering and monitoring by the government of the People. Government cannot be trusted with the power it wields and will almost always abuse it. And for something like constant monitoring of people in general, people not being charged with crime; well I'd much rather err on the side of liberty on this one.
    Well then we have to agree to disagree. I don't think it has anything to do with liberty. People want something for nothing, well nothing in life is free. Pee in the cup you get free money and food stamps, fail and you get nothing.

    Has to do with that whole taking responsibility for yourself deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Well then we have to agree to disagree. I don't think it has anything to do with liberty. People want something for nothing, well nothing in life is free. Pee in the cup you get free money and food stamps, fail and you get nothing.

    Has to do with that whole taking responsibility for yourself deal.
    I don't know about "something for nothing". There are certainly cases of abuse, and those can be addressed on the individual basis. However, welfare isn't just for the people on it, it's for all of us. The purpose being that if we can aggregate the support over the whole of us; we can prop up people long enough to see them through bad times. On the otherside, they can get a job and become productive again which overall nets positive for the rest of us since we can have a worker and taxpayer instead of a homeless bum.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    What is amazing to me is that there are people on this thread - you all know who you are, and if you don't, we do - who immediately equate poverty with drug abuse.
    Strawman argument, ftw.

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    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    I wouldn't call it class warfare, but it is doing something that punishes the children.
    I have been away from the thread, but have now read it all. I want to redress the quoted issue. Here is a blurb, from the OP, and also provided earlier by another poster:

    Those who fail the required drug testing may designate another individual to receive the benefits on behalf of their children.
    I would submit that rather than "punish the children", as Danarhea suggested, that it is actually seeking to improve the situation for the children. In that they are taking steps to insure that the adult who is in receipt of funds intended to help support the children is reasonably responsible. They do this by replacing an irresponsible adult with one deemed more responsible, not by eliminating the cash/assistance flow completely.

    I believe that Kentucky has a similar drug-testing plan in place. I do not know that for certain, how it has gone, etc. There may be other states as well.

    I applaud Gov. Scott.

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    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I don't know about "something for nothing". There are certainly cases of abuse, and those can be addressed on the individual basis. However, welfare isn't just for the people on it, it's for all of us. The purpose being that if we can aggregate the support over the whole of us; we can prop up people long enough to see them through bad times. On the otherside, they can get a job and become productive again which overall nets positive for the rest of us since we can have a worker and taxpayer instead of a homeless bum.
    Lets be real here most never get off welfare. We have entire generations of family's living off the state with no intentions of leaving. Mothers having baby after baby to keep the free money going. Now in the beginning it was just a stop gap but much like social security, it has grown far beyond that.

    So again I don't agree and have no problem with it at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    In some ways, this would have seemed a no-brainer. While it got some political challenges, it seems headed for Constitutional muster as well.



    I would like to think that this shoul dbe common-sense policy nationwide for anyone on any government assistance, to include those getting a government paycheck of any sort.

    Constitutional claims or not, I think this one hard to oppose politically. Of course, I am for the legalization of all drugs, with conditions, but would still want drug testing mandated regardless.
    IMHO, this will push the focus on cannabis users and not cocaine, heroin, amphetamine and prescription pill addicts who are in real need of medical treatment.

    But i do agree it is a step in the right direction.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    They are also dehumanizing. Can you imagine having someone watch you take piss just so you could get money for food?
    I took drug tests for high school sports and still take them regularly for my job. I think they can handle it.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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    Re: Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    IMHO, this will push the focus on cannabis users and not cocaine, heroin, amphetamine and prescription pill addicts who are in real need of medical treatment.

    But i do agree it is a step in the right direction.
    I am not sure of the specifics by any means. I would hope that they do not have follow-up plans to try to address any recipient who tests positive in ways that are not all-or-none, that being that cannibus is handled the same as heroin. I am also one of those Conservative/Libertarians that want all drugs legalized, but controlled. How this policy would eventually fit into that agenda, for instance if cannibus is legalized next month, I do not know.

    Baby steps I guess.

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