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Thread: Al-Jazeera footage captures 'western troops on the ground' in Libya

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    Re: Al-Jazeera footage captures 'western troops on the ground' in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Here is what I find interesting - I see righties taking al-Jazeera as the gospel truth. But when we were in Iraq, during the Bush administration, they exploded when links to al-Jazeera were posted, and asked why we would believe a slanted organization that sides with terrorists. Councilman put this very succinctly, with his tongue-in-cheek statement. I don't know if anybody else got the humor in what he posted, but I sure did. Nice one, Councilman. LOL.
    Oh, you probably didn't catch the video of these troops :



    (Advance to 2:04 and you'll see these westerners)

    Seriously, though, al-Jazeera has reported boots on the ground. Are they American boots? That is the question. If they are boots of another nation, which they seem to be, then what does that have to do with Obama?

    What I find most heartening in this thread is that some of our most vocal righties have found something other than FOX News to accept as a reliable source, and it is al-Jazeera. Why do they hate our troops?
    I don't hate the troops... I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy. Look, I'm not saying that these troops are at fault... troops follow orders, actually, there have been studies that troops will have more courage to storm a machine gun nest then they would refusing illegal orders. The vast majority of the troops perform their job admirably and honorably.

    The issue here is that we are not even honest enough to call an invasion / attempted coup d'etat as something other than what it is. See, now, we all hated Bush, but at least he was straight forward with what he was doing : "We are going into afghanistan on false pretenses" (opium, it's admitted now), "we're going to regime change Saddam because he had a yellow cake"

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Do you think international law is STOPPING that from happening? Has it stopped the US from sponsering it in the past, or has it stopped other powers trying to do it to us? Of course not. So what keeps this lovely world of ours spinning and what prevents people from killing each other?
    Well, there's not too much that actually gets in the way of people killing each other... but what is the limit to interference in this way?? Are we just going to try to rule the world??

    The reprecussions of what would happen if people find out is what. In fact you gave a pretty good reason why yourself.

    And Libya is a great example as to why it shouldnt have any particular international law against it, because when the need really arises and the US has to put a miserable bastard down then we wont look like hypocrites.
    Let's not forget Nuremburg precedences while we're engaged in this putting down "miserable bastards" around the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Μολὼν λαβέ View Post
    You mean in lieu of providing enemy combatants legal representation and allowing the judicial system in the U.S. to work? Where have I heard this before?
    Hey, is that a 'godwin theory' example I smell???

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    Re: Al-Jazeera footage captures 'western troops on the ground' in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, and I believe that I heard some time ago that the Brits and French were not ruling out sending in forces.

    The one thing glaring to me is that we, and when I say we I mean NATO, because that IS the US largely, are doing what most liberal whiners usually carry on about meddling in others affairs and such.

    I think we need to get back to a more basic foreign policy. And become more self sufficient as a nation.

    j-mac
    You mean we're the only ones with boots on the ground, besides of course Khadaffi???
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    Re: Al-Jazeera footage captures 'western troops on the ground' in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    That is very very true, but the Libyan's are not fighting for a different dictator under any particular ideology, they are fighting for freedom and fighting to end the repression.
    Right, many / most (?) of them are al-quaida... you know, the same people we are at war with in Afghanistan, the people "responsible" for 9-11.... well, in Libya, because you got such a hard on for their leader (who happens to know where alot of the US's skeletons are buried, but let's not discuss that) you've decided to support our enemies... Really, think about that for a second.

    Libya: the West and al-Qaeda on the same side - Telegraph
    An al-Qaeda leader of Libyan origin, Abu Yahya al-Libi, released a statement backing the insurrection a week ago, while Yusuf Qaradawi, the Qatar-based, Muslim Brotherhood-linked theologian issued a fatwa authorising Col Gaddafi's military entourage to assassinate him.

    But they also agree that the leading roles in the revolution are played by a similar cross-section of society as that in Egypt next door – liberals, nationalists, those with personal experience of regime brutality and Islamists who subscribe to democratic principles.
    While this is definetly a calculated risk, especially in countries that have dictators with a solid grip over the country and can successfully replace its leaders, the Arab Spring countries are definetly not as stable as that and thus not as likely to create some sort of leadership succession successfully without completely crumbling under current pressure.

    Actually i think in the case of Libya it would be especially advantegous for the TNC cause.
    Ya, but when you sell weapons to both sides of conflicts, sooner or later the 'customers' will realize your treachery and both turn their guns on you.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    It depends...is the current president a democrat or republican?
    I wasn't one of those... but the video is linked already... post #31

    One way in which I will give the benefit of doubt is because the footage is released with no hesitation... and not tossed into the ocean before any verification can take place.... anyway...

    I accept the need to consider any biases when looking at reported news, but clearly the telegraph sees aljezeera as legitimate news source...

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    Re: Al-Jazeera footage captures 'western troops on the ground' in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Al-Jazeera footage captures 'western troops on the ground' in Libya | World news | The Guardian



    Flashback : Libya conflict: EU awaits UN approval for deployment of ground troops | World news | guardian.co.uk

    So, there's a no-fly zone and boots on the ground... at what point do we get to stop calling it a "humanitarian" mission and call it more accurately : an invasion / an attempted coup d'etat??
    I believe liberation from an unpopular dictator slaughtering his own people would be far more accurate.

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    Re: Al-Jazeera footage captures 'western troops on the ground' in Libya

    I don't think the U.N. mandate included boots on the ground and one would suspect that any major western military deployments to Libya almost certainly would cause the current NATO-Arab alliance to come apart. I suspect whatever ‘boots’ present in Libya are limited to the feet of logistics personnel and ‘spotters’ coordinating close air support activities.
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    Re: Al-Jazeera footage captures 'western troops on the ground' in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Here is what I find interesting - I see righties taking al-Jazeera as the gospel truth.
    I for one will never take al-Jazeera as anything more than what it is IE a statist propaganda mill wholly owned and operated by the only other Wahhabist Absolute Monarchy on the planet IE the House of al-Thani.

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    Re: Al-Jazeera footage captures 'western troops on the ground' in Libya

    Our Libya involvement stopped being purely a humanitarian mission a long time ago (like, the day it started lol).

    Just sayin'
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: Al-Jazeera footage captures 'western troops on the ground' in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You mean we're the only ones with boots on the ground, besides of course Khadaffi???
    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Our Libya involvement stopped being purely a humanitarian mission a long time ago (like, the day it started lol).

    Just sayin'
    Ya... I know... crazy concept telling the truth about stuff. I mean, does anyone see how this discredits the US / NATO position of being a "humanitarian mission" as a lie, a cover-story to avoid legitimate justification for war. (though arguably there hasn't been a just war since WW2 that the US has been involved in)

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    Re: Al-Jazeera footage captures 'western troops on the ground' in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Right, many / most (?) of them are al-quaida... you know, the same people we are at war with in Afghanistan, the people "responsible" for 9-11.... well, in Libya, because you got such a hard on for their leader (who happens to know where alot of the US's skeletons are buried, but let's not discuss that) you've decided to support our enemies... Really, think about that for a second.
    Actually it's just you that has made that claim with absolute conviction so far. There is little evidence to suggest Al Qaeda has any role in any of this. In fact it has been clearly stated from every respected regional analyst that this uprising is one for the people, a tulip era against the tyranny and those who wanted to achieve this through terrorist and religious means have been left behind. You seem to forget who blew up Pan Am, remember that before you cuddle up to this man.

    And what "treachery" exactly??

    Well, there's not too much that actually gets in the way of people killing each other... but what is the limit to interference in this way?? Are we just going to try to rule the world??
    Certainly not but the case of Libya is different, because the Libyan leader has decided to massacre his own people and the displacement of that war has come at the expense of European security.

    A quick decisive victory from either side would be beneficial for us from a security and energy security viewpoint, sure. However to actively support a leader who is leading a genocide against his own people make US criminals. We should water the budding roots of every Democratic movement everywhere - this isnt imperialism, this is us supporting human rights and human dignity because we know no other system on this planet is better suited for this job.

    And it is through our humanity we seek to help the rebels, and through warfare we are forced to achieve it. If removing Muammer ends the murder of children and innocent women, then i support it.
    Last edited by kaya'08; 05-31-11 at 07:12 PM.
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    Re: Al-Jazeera footage captures 'western troops on the ground' in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Actually it's just you that has made that claim with absolute conviction so far. There is little evidence to suggest Al Qaeda has any role in any of this.
    Just not so. There are many reports out there about AQ being a part of the rebel force.

    In fact it has been clearly stated from every respected regional analyst that this uprising is one for the people, a tulip era against the tyranny and those who wanted to achieve this through terrorist and religious means have been left behind.
    Analysts such as?

    You seem to forget who blew up Pan Am, remember that before you cuddle up to this man.
    Nice strawman. Not true though.

    Certainly not but the case of Libya is different, because the Libyan leader has decided to massacre his own people and the displacement of that war has come at the expense of European security.
    What of Syria, Yemen, Bahrain? They too are firing on the population....Why not get involved there?

    As for Euro Security, Is that our problem?

    A quick decisive victory from either side would be beneficial for us from a security and energy security viewpoint, sure.

    How much oil does the US get from Lybia?

    However to actively support a leader who is leading a genocide against his own people make US criminals.
    We are not the worlds police.

    We should water the budding roots of every Democratic movement everywhere - this isnt imperialism, this is us supporting human rights and human dignity because we know no other system on this planet is better suited for this job.

    And how do you know that this is a true democratic uprising, and not some slick packaged Islamic take over betting on useful idiots to further their propaganda?

    And it is through our humanity we seek to help the rebels, and through warfare we are forced to achieve it. If removing Muammer ends the murder of children and innocent women, then i support it.
    Fools rush in.


    j-mac
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