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RT presenter choked by police

Caine said:
Can you tell me what was excessive?
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Like I said, I am kind of torn on the whole thing, and not knowing the entire circumstance leading up to the arrests leaves me with just the images on the video, and we all know how that can be manipulated context wise.

But, I thought that throwing the one guy to the ground was a little much, and I do understand the need of protecting the safety of the officer. I just don't know, if these people, these 6 people that thought of themselves as some sort of "flashmob" were told earlier to move along, and didn't, then they got what was coming. But the one guy was being told that this was his last warning with his hands raised, as he was being body slammed.

I don't know, what do you think?

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Like I said, I am kind of torn on the whole thing, and not knowing the entire circumstance leading up to the arrests leaves me with just the images on the video, and we all know how that can be manipulated context wise.

But, I thought that throwing the one guy to the ground was a little much, and I do understand the need of protecting the safety of the officer. I just don't know, if these people, these 6 people that thought of themselves as some sort of "flashmob" were told earlier to move along, and didn't, then they got what was coming. But the one guy was being told that this was his last warning with his hands raised, as he was being body slammed.

I don't know, what do you think?

j-mac
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He was raising his hands to prevent them from being placed behind his back for arrest. The officer attempted to just move his hands behind his back a few times and warned him. He was more or less picked up and dropped on his butt then pushed to his back. A body slam would have been slamming him down on his back and head.
The only thing that concerned me was the grabbing of his throat after he was put on the ground. But I don't know the level of force the "hand on throat" move was being given by the officer. I have no clue of knowing whether it was a choke move or if he was just giving enough force to keep the head and shoulders of the subject on the ground.
 
Caine said:
He was raising his hands to prevent them from being placed behind his back for arrest. The officer attempted to just move his hands behind his back a few times and warned him. He was more or less picked up and dropped on his butt then pushed to his back. A body slam would have been slamming him down on his back and head.
The only thing that concerned me was the grabbing of his throat after he was put on the ground. But I don't know the level of force the "hand on throat" move was being given by the officer. I have no clue of knowing whether it was a choke move or if he was just giving enough force to keep the head and shoulders of the subject on the ground.
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Yeah, I forgot about the choke....That also was a little disturbing. But, I generally give law enforcement the benefit of the doubt, they do a tough job.

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Yeah, I forgot about the choke....That also was a little disturbing. But, I generally give law enforcement the benefit of the doubt, they do a tough job.

j-mac
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I re-watched the video to make sure my memory didn't become inaccurate.
In the video I posted there is a 2nd camera angle, in it you can see the officer actually dropped the guy on his side, whether that was the intent or not I don't know.
Often times things don't go as officers plan in using force to effect an arrest. I have no way of knowing if that was the intent of the pickup and drop part or not.

On a different note, the takedown move is what is considered in my departmental policy as "soft-empty hand techniques" which are right after verbal commands (which were not working, obviously). So it appears as if he has used the lowest level of physical force necessary to meet the level of resistance, which is "defensive resistance". This applies to the takedown move alone.
 
Caine said:
I re-watched the video to make sure my memory didn't become inaccurate.
In the video I posted there is a 2nd camera angle, in it you can see the officer actually dropped the guy on his side, whether that was the intent or not I don't know.
Often times things don't go as officers plan in using force to effect an arrest. I have no way of knowing if that was the intent of the pickup and drop part or not.

On a different note, the takedown move is what is considered in my departmental policy as "soft-empty hand techniques" which are right after verbal commands (which were not working, obviously). So it appears as if he has used the lowest level of physical force necessary to meet the level of resistance, which is "defensive resistance". This applies to the takedown move alone.
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Yeah, granted. I generally try and do what law enforcement says to do, and avoid testing that area all together....know what I mean?

j-mac
 
SE102 said:
Ehh this wasn't that brutal.
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No, it wasn't. It also wasn't a flash mob either. But what I find odd, is what was so objectionable about people dancing? There didn't seem to be a back log getting in to the memorial.


j-mac
 
The police don't tolerate people getting confrontational like this. This attitude towards the police gets you locked up anywhere really. But not being able to dance there is kind of... a dumb rule that started all of this.
 
SE102 said:
The police don't tolerate people getting confrontational like this. This attitude towards the police gets you locked up anywhere really. But not being able to dance there is kind of... a dumb rule that started all of this.
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They were protesting the U.S. Court of Appeals ruling that occurred earlier this month.
It was a protest.
Protestors are antagonistic.
They were LOOKING to cause trouble. If the police ignored them they would have just bumped it up a notch.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
I think the same of the tea party movement.. should we brutally crack down on them as well? freedom of speech in the US is becoming freedom of speech limited. we certainly have more freedom of speech and expression in Europe 2011 than you have in the US.
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LOL. Europe has some of the most ridiculous infringements on freedom of expression.
 
SE102 said:
The police don't tolerate people getting confrontational like this. This attitude towards the police gets you locked up anywhere really. But not being able to dance there is kind of... a dumb rule that started all of this.
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Well, mark the day SE102. We are in agreement. The individuals didn't look like they were harming anyone there to see the monument. I think that Jefferson may have approved of their disobedience.

j-mac
 
GPS_Flex said:
We agree that none of these are examples of free speech. Do we agree that what the protesters did wasn’t an example of free speech?
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Freedom of expression. Also by their actions they were saying that making this law, and restricting peoples rights with laws that break with the constitution. is not ok. That is what freedom of expression is all about.
 
Caine said:
It was a protest.
Protestors are antagonistic.
They were LOOKING to cause trouble. If the police ignored them they would have just bumped it up a notch.
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Wait, are you making generalized statements about protests, or just about these? It seems like a bit of line blurring is going on to me...
 
You don't resist police. What you do is record their activities and then sue their asses off. That is the way things change.

I must say though, I do rather enjoy when police get their asses handed to them by a mob for abusing their powers.

Play fair and you'll get fairness in return. That goes both ways.
 
Temporal said:
You don't resist police. What you do is record their activities and then sue their asses off. That is the way things change.

I must say though, I do rather enjoy when police get their asses handed to them by a mob for abusing their powers.

Play fair and you'll get fairness in return. That goes both ways.
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Now, can you tell me how any of your post is relevant to this thread..... or are you just being a general cop-hater?
 
Temporal said:
It's my two cents... if you don't like it, then don't respond?
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Just curious as to what video or incident you were referring to.
Nobody got their asses handed to them in this video.
 
Risky Thicket said:
Let's cut to the chase, most of those people were acting like a mob of dickwits at the Jefferson Memorial to draw the attention they got. In my humble opinion, they were directionless losers pissing away 1st Amendment Rights for no good reason. There are many great reasons but acting like a gaggle of assclowns is not one of them.
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I agree with you, but after reading your post, I am surprised that Fred Phelps and the Westboro crazies have not been arrested. Do they, perhaps, have more First Amendment rights than the dancers?
 
danarhea said:
I agree with you, but after reading your post, I am surprised that Fred Phelps and the Westboro crazies have not been arrested. Do they, perhaps, have more First Amendment rights than the dancers?
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You are missing the point.
Law Enforcement in this case weren't just arresting people to arrest them.
It was specific to their location.
 
Caine said:
Wrong. They were protesting a U.S. Court of Appeals decision that UPHELD a BAN on dancing and other forms of protests INSIDE the monuments.

The police were not brutal. There was nothing brutal about the way the police handled the situation.
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I agree with Caine.

I don't agree with the law, but the police were generally quite civil in enforcing it. The guy they body slammed was a big dude, and he was using his might to resist arrest in a very passive way, which I also commend. His point was to protest the law, and be arrested for it in a manner to maximize the story, and like the police, he did his job in a respectful way.

but I hate the law, and the direction this country is heading. Fear is winning, and it sucks. This story reminds me of this article
 
danarhea said:
I agree with you, but after reading your post, I am surprised that Fred Phelps and the Westboro crazies have not been arrested. Do they, perhaps, have more First Amendment rights than the dancers?
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They get permits and follow the law.

The most vile and hateful speech is still allowed. Which makes all the Utube comments about 'end of liberty and freedom' just ridiculous.

Permits allow for the allocation of proper crowd control. Groups under 25 don't need a permit, but demonstrations at that specific location are expressly forbidden. There are tons of places where demonstrations are allowed in DC. The National mall is very accommodating.

This was not JUST DANCING. This was a deliberate attempt to draw attention -- a demonstration under the law. They brought cameras and were there to make a scene. The park police politely asked them to leave, they refused, procedure was followed.

I feel sorry for the regular visitors who were turned away at the end of the video. It is a long walk over to the Jefferson and because of the selfish actions of this Adam fellow, their day was ruined. In his tiny little mind rights have no limitations. And the rest of the world has no rights when he's exercising his.
 
hazlnut said:
They get permits and follow the law.

The most vile and hateful speech is still allowed. Which makes all the Utube comments about 'end of liberty and freedom' just ridiculous.

Permits allow for the allocation of proper crowd control. Groups under 25 don't need a permit, but demonstrations at that specific location are expressly forbidden. There are tons of places where demonstrations are allowed in DC. The National mall is very accommodating.

This was not JUST DANCING. This was a deliberate attempt to draw attention -- a demonstration under the law. They brought cameras and were there to make a scene. The park police politely asked them to leave, they refused, procedure was followed.

I feel sorry for the regular visitors who were turned away at the end of the video. It is a long walk over to the Jefferson and because of the selfish actions of this Adam fellow, their day was ruined. In his tiny little mind rights have no limitations. And the rest of the world has no rights when he's exercising his.
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My permit is the Bill of Rights.... Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech... or the right of the people to peaceably assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
 
The_Patriot said:
My permit is the Bill of Rights.... Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech... or the right of the people to peaceably assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
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SCOTUS has outlined the limits. Maybe you weren't aware.

The National Parks has outlined fair and reasonable rules for demonstrations. Groups of 25 or less can demonstrate in numerous locations throughout the mall. The permit process is there to ensure public safety and protect the RIGHTS of regular tourists. SCOTUS has upheld reasonable restrictions on demonstrations.

The WBC and Fred Phelps get their permits wherever they go. They are the most vile and hateful group out there and SCOTUS upheld their rights. Free Speech in American is stronger than ever with the internet, Facebook, Twitter. But you CAN NOT infringe on the rights of others while exercising your rights.

Thomas Jefferson believed in the rule of law. These flash mob assholes didn't respect that.
 
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