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Thread: RT presenter choked by police

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    Re: RT presenter choked by police

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    Call it what you will. You made comparisons to Nazism in record time and even went so far as to compare the police who arrest lawbreakers to those who put Jews in ovens. Your comparisons were actually more troll like than anything but trolls invoke Godwin’s Law all the time.
    Your obsession is the colours within the analogy, not the principles, to make your argument. I pointed out my argument very clearly, the underlying principle "only follow orders". You won't take me head on with this because you've lost on this point, which was the only point I intended to make. You instead must bring up irrelevant differences that the analogies have. Will you next use the fact that one thing happened in Germany and another happened in the US and act like this is what my argument is based upon? Strawman will not go pass me unnoticed.

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    Re: RT presenter choked by police

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    None of the above is an example of free speech.
    We agree that none of these are examples of free speech. Do we agree that what the protesters did wasn’t an example of free speech?

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: RT presenter choked by police

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    We agree that none of these are examples of free speech. Do we agree that what the protesters did wasn’t an example of free speech?
    They were doing exactly what again? Dancing, to protest a law against dancing? I suppose that wouldn't be really under the definition of free speech, either.

    I'm still not very clear on just what they were protesting. They do have the right to protest, however.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: RT presenter choked by police

    Quote Originally Posted by empireofreason View Post
    Your obsession is the colours within the analogy, not the principles, to make your argument. I pointed out my argument very clearly, the underlying principle "only follow orders". You won't take me head on with this because you've lost on this point, which was the only point I intended to make. You instead must bring up irrelevant differences that the analogies have. Will you next use the fact that one thing happened in Germany and another happened in the US and act like this is what my argument is based upon? Strawman will not go pass me unnoticed.
    But I am taking you on with the “only follow orders” argument you made.

    You see, if you are so politically biased that you hate on American cops for following orders but fail to equally condemn people who are committing true atrocities in this world as we speak, you are, as I pointed out originally, just another troll who has a weak argument and must call someone you dislike a Nazi.

    If you want to talk about whether law enforcement officials should follow orders, we can quickly do that.

    Point to the German law that required Nazis to put Jews into ovens. You can’t because even under German law it was illegal to do what they did.

    Do you believe in GOD?

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: RT presenter choked by police

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    They were doing exactly what again? Dancing, to protest a law against dancing? I suppose that wouldn't be really under the definition of free speech, either.

    I'm still not very clear on just what they were protesting. They do have the right to protest, however.
    If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. - Thomas Jefferson

    Such wise words...

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    Re: RT presenter choked by police

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    They were doing exactly what again? Dancing, to protest a law against dancing? I suppose that wouldn't be really under the definition of free speech, either.

    I'm still not very clear on just what they were protesting. They do have the right to protest, however.
    Sure, they could have held signs, danced outside the monument, whatever but they chose to protest the law by violating it. They got arrested. Go figure.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: RT presenter choked by police

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    So, you view these cops as equal to Nazis who put Jews into ovens because they arrested people who broke the law but you consider it “intellectual disabilities” when it comes to Islam where such public actions would likely bring about years in prison or a possible death penalty.

    What is your religious or political affiliation? You obviously lack the ability to apply logic to an issue in a scientific manner so it must be religion or politics that drive your illogical arguments. Which is it?
    I did not say the cops are equal to Nazis. Comparison is not the same as equating. You cannot win by creating an argument I never made then, then defeat this argument you set up. That's not a win, Strawman. You may want to reread. But I'll restate for your convenience. The underlying comparison was to point out that they both "only follow orders". The Nazi term in and of itself is not important really, it is only implies an event where this "only follows orders" principle is commonly known to have occurred. If any one has exaggerated Nazi in this situation you have. Overuse of an analogy does not somehow sudden;u over time make an analogy fallacious either.

    Oh, these cops are obviously "intellectually disabled" too. They share that common principle with the Islamic. There. Happy now? I'm not just saying it about one and not the other. I'm a fair guy once you get to know me.

    You accuse the use of logic as religion or political affiliation. If you continue to evade reasoning on this matter I will have to discontinue schooling you.
    Last edited by empireofreason; 05-29-11 at 11:33 PM.

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    Re: RT presenter choked by police

    Quote Originally Posted by empireofreason View Post
    The mentality of this law enforcement is all you need to put a Jew in an oven. The rule of law is more important than common sense. It's idiots like these that make a Holocaust possible. There was no crime committed. The constitution or law is irrelevant when judging a person's action in terms of crime. One must only ask, what harm can be proven? Where there is no harm, there can be no crime. These idiot cops are a sorry excuse for a human being.
    Quote Originally Posted by empireofreason View Post
    The implication is that they follow orders and the specific orders are to use force against people who are in no way harming others. Do you find this humerous? The two principles are identical in both situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by empireofreason View Post
    I did not say the cops are equal to Nazis. Comparison is not the same as equating. You cannot win by creating an argument I never made then, then defeat this argument you set up. That's not a win, Strawman. You may want to reread. But I'll restate for your convenience. The underlying comparison was to point out that they both "only follow orders". The Nazi term in and of itself is not important really, it is only implies an event where this "only follows orders" principle is commonly known to have occurred. If any one has exaggerated Nazi in this situation you have. Overuse of an analogy does not somehow sudden;u over time make an analogy fallacious either.

    Oh, these cops are obviously "intellectually disabled" too. They share that common principle with the Islamic. There. Happy now? I'm not just saying it about one and not the other. I'm a fair guy once you get to know me.

    You accuse the use of logic as religion or political affiliation. If you continue to evade reasoning on this matter I will have to discontinue schooling you.
    So your argument now is that you weren’t comparing them to Nazis, you were comparing their actions to Nazis who didn’t follow the law.

    Can you explain how these cops arresting people for breaking the law had anything to do with Nazis who threw Jews into ovens? It isn’t a “strawman”. You chose the comparison, not me. Please explain.

    As I already educated you on, the Nazis who threw Jews into ovens did so in violation of the law (even German law) so I fail to see the “just following orders” connection you are clinging to.

    Please explain how the Nazis' and these police officers' “two principles are identical in both situations”.
    Last edited by GPS_Flex; 05-29-11 at 11:55 PM.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: RT presenter choked by police

    .

    The debate here is getting a little distorted. A law was established after a Mob Dance occurred several years ago. Don't know the details of that situation but the event resulted in a new rule/regulation/statute that stated no dancing in the sites/memorials on the national mall.

    Am suspecting there are rules against playing loud boomboxes, riding bicycles, sleeping, alcohol, barbeque grills, etc. in these national monuments. Goal is to keep the environment safe and serene for the visitors to the landmarks. People come from around to world to visit/see these revered structures and providing a calm peaceful ambiance is not really asking too much.

    The arguments that these few "dance protestors" where causing no harm isn't really valid. It is difficult to make laws with caveats. "Well you can only dance if it is a slow quiet dance". "Well you can only set up a barbeque grill if you keep the smoke down, and don't turn up the boombox very loud".

    The national mall is special place and a destination for travelers from across the globe. Keeping the monuments peaceful, orderly, and quiet is a reasonable goal. Again, the dance rule was the outcome of an earlier mob dance that was determined to be disruptive. This isn't really all that complex.


    .
    Last edited by pragmatic; 05-30-11 at 12:22 AM.


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    Re: RT presenter choked by police

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    But I am taking you on with the “only follow orders” argument you made.
    Now you want to take me on. No more strawman please. Trolls use strawman.


    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    You see, if you are so politically biased that you hate on American cops for following orders..
    Strawman. Never used hate. Never hated on cops. This is continued use of Strawman.

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    ... but fail to equally condemn people who are committing true atrocities in this world as we speak,...
    Oh, now since I haven't mentioned the entirety of current world events where atrocity is occurring, I'm implied to be wrong. According to your logic, you are wrong because you have ignored all current events containing atrocity. Why didn't you mention all of them?

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    you are, as I pointed out originally, just another troll who has a weak argument and must call someone you dislike a Nazi.
    I called who a Nazi? Strawman. BAck up your claim, with a quote, or fall into the category of Strawman. Calling a person a Troll is often used by those who are loosing the debate. The phrase Grasping at Straws has an origin.

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    If you want to talk about whether law enforcement officials should follow orders, we can quickly do that.

    Point to the German law that required Nazis to put Jews into ovens. You can’t because even under German law it was illegal to do what they did.
    This law is not relevant. Proving this law is not relevant. It is commonly know in that analogy that Nazi's only followed orders and committed crimes against innocent Jews. It is a principle that is being pointed out. It doesn't need to have evidence. You simply just need to understand the principle. So human communication can occur. I don't have to prove the Holocaust to make that point relevant. Ok? Proving that the law exists is off topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    Do you believe in GOD?
    Don't bother me with such irrelevant nonsense.
    Last edited by empireofreason; 05-30-11 at 12:06 AM.

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