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Old 11-13-09, 12:58 PM   #1
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tired and discredited claim that affordable housing caused the housing crisis

Quick Fact: WSJ op-ed advances tired and discredited claim that affordable housing caused the housing crisis | Media Matters for America

A November 13 Wall Street Journal op-ed lied that loans made "under the pressure of" the Community Reinvestment Act helped to "fuel the greatest housing bubble our nation has ever seen." The claim that affordable housing initiatives were responsible for the housing crisis is a widely discredited myth.


Myth that CRA and affordable housing initiatives caused crisis has been widely discredited


Bernanke: Experience "runs counter to the charge that CRA was at the root of, or otherwise contributed in any substantive way to, the current mortgage difficulties." In a November 25, 2008, letter, Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke stated: "Our own experience with CRA over more than 30 years and recent analysis of available data, including data on subprime loan performance, runs counter to the charge that CRA was at the root of, or otherwise contributed in any substantive way to, the current mortgage difficulties." http://menendez.senate.gov/pdf/11250...nankeonCRA.pdf


SF Reserve Bank's Yellen: "[S]tudies have shown that the CRA has increased the volume of responsible lending to low- and moderate-income households." Janet Yellen, president and CEO of the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco, stated in a March 2008 speech that "studies have shown that the CRA has increased the volume of responsible lending to low- and moderate-income households." President's Speech: Opening Remarks to the 2008 National Interagency Community Reinvestment Conference (3/31/2008)
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Old 11-17-09, 01:01 PM   #2
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Re: tired and discredited claim that affordable housing caused the housing crisis

And you bought this line?

Remember that an amendment to the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act (GLBA) which stated

Quote:
"that no merger may go ahead if any of the financial holding institutions, or affiliates thereof, received a "less than satisfactory [sic] rating at its most recent CRA exam", essentially meaning that any merger may only go ahead with the strict approval of the regulatory bodies responsible for the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA).[17] This was an issue of hot contention, and the Clinton Administration stressed that it "would veto any legislation that would scale back minority-lending requirements."
Gramm?Leach?Bliley Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This lead to a situation where banks had to lend to people who didn't have the ability to pay back the loans creating what has since been called toxic assets.
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Old 11-17-09, 01:18 PM   #3
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Re: tired and discredited claim that affordable housing caused the housing crisis

But I'll say again, it wasn't cheap loans that caused the problem. It was "creative financing" within our financial institutions that allowed leveraging of derivities at such high rates as a byproduct of their cash cow - home loans, property insurance and securities - that caused the problem. The housing market was the catalysist, the financial vehicle that gave the financial markets their "foot in the door" as it were to create riskier investment opportunities. But the cause was deregulation of the housing industry and the lack of regulatory oversight.

Don't get them confused.
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Old 11-17-09, 06:37 PM   #4
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Re: tired and discredited claim that affordable housing caused the housing crisis

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Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
But I'll say again, it wasn't cheap loans that caused the problem. It was "creative financing" within our financial institutions that allowed leveraging of derivities at such high rates as a byproduct of their cash cow - home loans, property insurance and securities - that caused the problem. The housing market was the catalysist, the financial vehicle that gave the financial markets their "foot in the door" as it were to create riskier investment opportunities. But the cause was deregulation of the housing industry and the lack of regulatory oversight.

Don't get them confused.

Actually, it was the refusal of the regulators to do their job. AKA Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Maxine Waters, etc. Even when people came before their committee to warn of impending doom, they couldn't be bothered.

Why are these people not in prison?
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Old 11-17-09, 07:02 PM   #5
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Re: tired and discredited claim that affordable housing caused the housing crisis

Media Matters.... Pass.

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Old 11-17-09, 07:54 PM   #6
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Re: tired and discredited claim that affordable housing caused the housing crisis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
But I'll say again, it wasn't cheap loans that caused the problem. It was "creative financing" within our financial institutions that allowed leveraging of derivities at such high rates as a byproduct of their cash cow - home loans, property insurance and securities - that caused the problem. The housing market was the catalysist, the financial vehicle that gave the financial markets their "foot in the door" as it were to create riskier investment opportunities. But the cause was deregulation of the housing industry and the lack of regulatory oversight.

Don't get them confused.
Look, this isn't rocket science.

What caused the housing bubble?
A: More demand than supply.

Why was there such a high demand for homes?
A: Because lending standards were lowered, which created a huge influx of first time buyers, and expanded the buyers market.

Why were the lending standards lowered?
A: Because the government forced lenders to do so under the revised CRA standards imposed by the Clinton administration.

Why did lenders take on so many high risk loans?
A: Because they didn't have to assume the risk, because Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac offered to buy as many of the high risk loans that they could write.

Why did Fannie and Freddie buy up those high risk loans?
A: Because they are a government backed lending institution, so the government guaranteed, or insured them if they should fail.

When was this problem discovered, and could the collapse have been prevented?
A: It was brought to the attention of congress in 2001, and yes, it could have been prevented. The Bush administration issued their first warning of a potential collapse back in 2001, and continued to issue warnings that reform was needed. There were hearings on this issue in 2003, and again in 2005, but both reform proposals never made it to the floor. They were killed in committee on mostly party lines.

And there you have it. There are other factors that contributed to the housing market collapse, but it's all rooted in the government forcing banks to lower their lending standards, then refusing to take measures to fix the problem once it was brought to their attention back in 2001.

No matter how you spin it, there's no getting around the fact that not only is it the government's fault for enacting the bad policy that started this thing, but it's also their fault for not fixing it when the could have.

.

Last edited by Grim17; 11-17-09 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 11-18-09, 05:27 AM   #7
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Re: tired and discredited claim that affordable housing caused the housing crisis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
Look, this isn't rocket science.

What caused the housing bubble?
A: More demand than supply.
Not really.. greed.

Quote:
Why was there such a high demand for homes?
A: Because lending standards were lowered, which created a huge influx of first time buyers, and expanded the buyers market.
Yes, but it had more to do with lack of regulation. A huge majority of the bad loans were on an unregulated market and a large portion were sold on false pretences because of the lack of regulation. Funny how you right wingers constantly forget this critical aspect.

Quote:
Why were the lending standards lowered?
A: Because the government forced lenders to do so under the revised CRA standards imposed by the Clinton administration.
Sub prime lending started long before the Clinton administration. What the Clinton Administration did, with a huge help by the Republican's was to remove a bunch of regulation that for one kept a barrier between investment banking and real banking, but also made it possible to make very complicated products that no one really understood and were ultimately the reason we got into such troubles. Why did you forget to mention that during the Clinton administration it was the Republican lead congress that pushed for this deregulation?

Quote:
Why did lenders take on so many high risk loans?
A: Because they didn't have to assume the risk, because Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac offered to buy as many of the high risk loans that they could write.


This consistent blaming of Freddie and Fannie Mae is nothing but right wing spin. Of the 1.5 trillion dollars in sub-prime mortgages almost none came out of Freddie and Fannie Mae. Why? Because the loans would not meet Freddie and Fannie's strict rules.. ironic no?

One of the main reasons that Fannie and Freddie got into trouble is because of the collapse of the US housing market and economy. Yes they catered to a special portion of the population, a portion that were the first to get hit by the economic crisis, which lead to them not being able to pay for their mortgages and on top of that the fact that their home value had dropped considerably.

Like it or not, a huge majority of the risky sub-prime lending happened outside Fannie and Freddie Mac. I know it goes against the RNC talking points but facts are facts. If you want to get rid of Fannie and Freddie, then why did you not do so during the decade of Republican rule?.. hell why did you not do it under Reagan?

And answer me this.. what proportion of the mortgage market does Fannie and Freddie sit on in the US? 5% 20% 50% or more?

Quote:
Why did Fannie and Freddie buy up those high risk loans?
A: Because they are a government backed lending institution, so the government guaranteed, or insured them if they should fail.
Again more spin. Define "high risk loans". Sub-prime? How much of Fannie and Freddie's mortgage portfolio is sub-prime.. do you know? Or do you consider all of Fannie and Freddie as sub-prime?

Quote:
When was this problem discovered, and could the collapse have been prevented?
A: It was brought to the attention of congress in 2001, and yes, it could have been prevented. The Bush administration issued their first warning of a potential collapse back in 2001, and continued to issue warnings that reform was needed. There were hearings on this issue in 2003, and again in 2005, but both reform proposals never made it to the floor. They were killed in committee on mostly party lines.
Wait a minute. Fannie and Freddie did not enter the sub-prime market until 2002 according to the information I have read... And if the Republican held congress and White House knew of the problem in 2001 then why did they allow Fannie and Freddie to enter the sub-prime market?

Quote:
And there you have it. There are other factors that contributed to the housing market collapse, but it's all rooted in the government forcing banks to lower their lending standards, then refusing to take measures to fix the problem once it was brought to their attention back in 2001.
No it was because of greedy banks and lending institutions that saw a quick buck in a market where there was no regulation.

What you and your cohorts are doing (and sadly have succeeded some what) is to blame drug addicts and government for allowing the drug lords to rule the land and then giving the drug lords a free ride. Why does the right constantly skip over the fact that it was private companies that created a huge portion of the problem in the first place?

Quote:
No matter how you spin it, there's no getting around the fact that not only is it the government's fault for enacting the bad policy that started this thing, but it's also their fault for not fixing it when the could have.
OH I agree it was at the start the governments fault. Deregulation lead to a heroine rush of epic proportions in the private sector. However we all know that the deregulation would never have happened if it was not for the industries lobbying the government into getting rid of the regulations that was holding them back.

Again, why this constant defence by omission of the private sector in context of this crisis?
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Old 11-18-09, 10:02 AM   #8
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Re: tired and discredited claim that affordable housing caused the housing crisis

Hey Pete, I didn't spin anything. Government intervention in the lending industry is what started this mess, and then refusing to address the problem in the name of politics, is what has landed us here today.

Here are a few excerpts from an August 5, 2008 NY Times article that sheds some light on this matter:

Quote:
At Freddie Mac, Chief Discarded Warning Signs
By CHARLES DUHIGG
Published: August 5, 2008

Excerpt

The chief executive of the mortgage giant Freddie Mac rejected internal warnings that could have protected the company from some of the financial crises now engulfing it, according to more than two dozen current and former high-ranking executives and others. That chief executive, Richard F. Syron, in 2004 received a memo from Freddie Mac’s chief risk officer warning him that the firm was financing questionable loans that threatened its financial health.

...

In an interview, Freddie Mac’s former chief risk officer, David A. Andrukonis, recalled telling Mr. Syron in mid-2004 that the company was buying bad loans that “would likely pose an enormous financial and reputational risk to the company and the country.”

Mr. Syron received a memo stating that the firm’s underwriting standards were becoming shoddier and that the company was becoming exposed to losses, according to Mr. Andrukonis and two others familiar with the document.

But as they sat in a conference room, Mr. Syron refused to consider possibilities for reducing Freddie Mac’s risks, said Mr. Andrukonis, who left in 2005 to become a teacher.

“He said we couldn’t afford to say no to anyone,” Mr. Andrukonis said. Over the next three years, Freddie Mac continued buying riskier loans.

...

Indeed, executives of both companies maintain that one of the reasons the firms hold so many bad loans is that Congress has leaned on them for years to buy mortgages from low-income borrowers to encourage affordable housing. In 2004, Freddie Mac warned regulators that affordable housing goals could force the company to buy riskier loans.

...

Both firms had sophisticated systems to hedge against risks. But they remained exposed to one unlikely, but potentially catastrophic possibility: a wide-scale decline in national home prices.

The only real protection against such a downfall was purchasing only the safest loans.

However, the companies were constantly under pressure to buy riskier mortgages. Once, a high-ranking Democrat telephoned executives and screamed at them to purchase more loans from low-income borrowers, according to a Congressional source. Shareholders attacked the executives for missing profitable opportunities by being too cautious.

Mr. Syron and Mr. Mudd eventually yielded to those pressures, effectively wagering that if things got too bad, the government would bail them out.

“The thinking was that if something really bad happened to the housing market, then the government would need Freddie and Fannie more than ever, and would have to rescue them,” Mr. Andrukonis said. “Everybody understood that at some level the company was putting taxpayers at risk.”

The following two sentences from that article bare repeating:

"one of the reasons the firms hold so many bad loans is that Congress has leaned on them for years to buy mortgages from low-income borrowers to encourage affordable housing"

"Once, a high-ranking Democrat telephoned executives and screamed at them to purchase more loans from low-income borrowers"

Last edited by Grim17; 11-18-09 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 11-18-09, 10:12 AM   #9
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Re: tired and discredited claim that affordable housing caused the housing crisis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
Hey Pete, I didn't spin anything. Government intervention in the lending industry is what started this mess, and then refusing to address the problem in the name of politics, is what has landed us here today.

Here are a few excerpts from an August 5, 2008 NY Times article that sheds some light on this matter:




The following two sentences from that article bare repeating:

"one of the reasons the firms hold so many bad loans is that Congress has leaned on them for years to buy mortgages from low-income borrowers to encourage affordable housing"

"Once, a high-ranking Democrat telephoned executives and screamed at them to purchase more loans from low-income borrowers"
you really are missing the point. or better yet, making the point that you are a partisan's partisan.

again, no institution was ever forced by CRA to make bad loans. EVER. greed drove this collapse.
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Old 11-18-09, 10:34 AM   #10
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Re: tired and discredited claim that affordable housing caused the housing crisis

Affordable Housing caused the bubble. The bubble burst. The rest is history.

Now, how didn't affordable housing cause the recession, again?
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Last edited by apdst; 11-18-09 at 10:35 AM.
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