Binary_Digit

Hey look, in response to specific lies by Team Bush, someone posts another nauseating list of every bad thing Democrats ever said about Sadaam Hussein. You want a cookie now?

There are no lies in your copy/paste list of quotes. What you need to understand is, if that were all Bush ever said about Iraq and Hussein, then he wouldn't have lied either. But he did lie, several times about specific things, and your pathetic attempt to distract from that does nothing but show that those Democrats didn't lie while Bush did.

__________________
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obvious Child

Well, until we get watergate like tapes proving that Bush knew what he was saying was totally untrue, we can't call Bush a liar.

However, the intel that he did use we know was totally crap and the sources much of it came from were flagged as unreliable by our allies well before we invaded.

Did Bush Cherry pick? Of course.
Did Bush change the intelligence standards? Of course
Did Bush ignore information that contridicted the argumemt? Of course
But did he LIE?

Get me some tapes. And then we'll talk.

__________________
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"Because I have asked you. And because your loyalty to our people should be greater than your ambition. And because I have poisoned your drink."

Binary_Digit

Like I said, each of the lies I listed can be verified.

For one, the 2002 NIE proves that Condoleeza Rice lied when she said the centrifuge tubes were "only really suited" for nuclear weapons programs, because it shows the leading scientists at the time were saying they were "poorly suited" for that purpose. She said that several months after the NIE had been released to the policy makers.

For two, the 2002 NIE also proves that Bush himself lied when he said Hussein might give WMDs to terrorists, because the NIE's assessment at the time was that the likelihood of Hussein doing that was low unless he was being invaded.

All the others are verifiable just the same. And honestly, "we've never been stay the course" and "we do not torture" are no-brainers.

Captain America

Y'know. You do make a good point. My last girlfriend called me a liar just because I didn't tell her I spent the weekend with my ex. I never said a word. So how could I have lied?

Let's compromise. Bush, et al, intentionally and carefully cherry picked and manipulated the intelligence, and the lack of intelligence, to hoodwink everyone into believing that we needed to go to war with Iraq.

Better?

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obvious Child

You didn't. But nowhere did I say what Bush and by analogy you did was acceptable. I was purely discussing what is required for someone to be a liar.

The only people who would disagree with that would be Navy and Aqua.

obvious Child

No, it does not. That only proves that Rice may not have been knowing what she was talking about. Happens all of the time. Being ignorant does not equate to being a liar.

How? Lying REQUIRES one to know that what they are passing off as the truth is false. Did Bush in fact KNOW that? Did he ACCEPT the NIE's findings?

A fanatic who believes that the Moon is made of Cheese is not lying when he says the moon is made of cheese as he truly believes the moon is made of Cheese. That is his truth. One cannot lie if what they pass off as the truth is what they believe to be the truth. Nixon is a good example because we have evidence that he knew what he said later was false. We don't have this for Bush.

See above.

Simon W. Moon

I dont know about other folks, but my parents raised me with higher standards of truthfulness than have been applied to the Bush Admin.

Liketeh bit in cincinatti where GWB says that he "concerned" about Hussein using flying, poison spraying robots to attack the US. Well, maybe he was concerned and therefore it's not what bush backers are willing to call a lie. However, if I tried that sort of thing w/ my parents and then tried to use the clever construction of my sentences as an out ... I was raised old school w/ a strap when I was a kid. I dont think it would have been spared or that careful parsing negates 'lie' part of it.

But that just how I was raised.
Maybe some folks parents bought that sort of crap and maybe some parents these days find that sort of behavior acceptable and honest.

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Binary_Digit

Right, and Bush just doesn't realize what waterboarding is whenever he says "we do not torture."

When you spout off as an authority on something, and you say very specific things about it like "only," knowing full well at the time you don't know what you're talking about, then that's not an honest mistake, it's a lie. Especially when you're an important figure in a country's leadership and you're talking about another country pursuing nuclear weapons!

It doesn't matter whether or not he "accepted" the NIE's findings.

How do you interpret this?

Bush: Hussein might give WMDs to terrorists on any given day.

Would you say that it sounds very likely that Hussein might do that, or not very likely?

Now how about this?

NIE: The likelihood that Hussein would give WMDs to terrorists is low.

Would you say that it sounds very likely that Hussein might do that, or not very likely?

Most people would interpret the plain wording exactly the same. Bush mentioned that scenario in alarming absolutes, even while his experts were telling him that it was not very likely. That is a misrepresentation of the facts as he knew them at the time, and as such it is a lie. Especially if he didn't "accept" the NIE's findings and fabricated his own reality instead.

Truth Detector

Bush really said this eh? I'd like to see the EXACT quote from a credible source. Perhaps, you are EXAGERATING or STRETCHING the truth here? Perhaps you need the strap?

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Truth Detector

You are exhibiting a fascinating propensity for avoiding the FACTS. The reason I posted those quotes was to illustrate the inane rantings about how Bush lied when so many others stated the EXACT same things with the EXACT same intelligence.

This idiotic nonsense suggesting that one does not pick and choose which intelligence to use is naive in the extreme. Does anyone honestly think that BUSH is the only one who picked which intelligence had the most merit to them?

I guess Tony Blair carefully conspired to cherry pick the exact same intelligence. I guess the Madeline Albright cherry picked the exact same intelligence.....it's all one HUGE coincidence.

Meanwhile you Liberals and leftists continue to direct your confused rage and anger at our own President while missing the fact that Osama and the terrorist thugs are the REAL enemies here, not Bush. But in your misguided and inane state of minds, you want to make Bush the enemy and let the Terrorists off the hook. You have to be some kind of mental giant to get to such warped and retarded logic.

Oh wait, I almost forgot, it's not about terrorists or meeting our commitments in Iraq, it's all about political power to you people; and that is more important than Americans safety. Therefore, the thugs, murderers and terrorists are not responsible; it's all Bush's fault.

Carry on. I have to stand on my head with one hand in the air and a leg outstretched to get to such foolhardy and confused logic.