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Is Liberalism Exhausted?

KLATTU

KLATTU

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Interesting essay by Jonah Goldberg.

Is Liberalism Exhausted? - Jonah Goldberg - Page 2

MSNBC had thought it could mimic Fox News' success from the left. The problem is that it never understood what Fox News is. MSNBC's execs saw it through the prism of their own ideological bias and so ended up offering a left-wing caricature of a caricature. Contrary to myth, Fox (where I am a contributor) is in fact an actual news network, albeit with prime-time opinion shows. Meanwhile, a study by Pew found that MSNBC was 85 percent opinion.

The more salient point is that there's such a small appetite for that opinion. As Josh Kraushaar of the National Journal recently observed, Barack Obama has successfully moved his party to the left but has failed utterly to bring the rest of the country with him. In 2012, James Stimson, arguably America's leading expert on U.S. public opinion, found that the country was more conservative than at any time since 1952.
 
KLATTU said:
Interesting essay by Jonah Goldberg.

Is Liberalism Exhausted? - Jonah Goldberg - Page 2

MSNBC had thought it could mimic Fox News' success from the left. The problem is that it never understood what Fox News is. MSNBC's execs saw it through the prism of their own ideological bias and so ended up offering a left-wing caricature of a caricature. Contrary to myth, Fox (where I am a contributor) is in fact an actual news network, albeit with prime-time opinion shows. Meanwhile, a study by Pew found that MSNBC was 85 percent opinion.

The more salient point is that there's such a small appetite for that opinion. As Josh Kraushaar of the National Journal recently observed, Barack Obama has successfully moved his party to the left but has failed utterly to bring the rest of the country with him. In 2012, James Stimson, arguably America's leading expert on U.S. public opinion, found that the country was more conservative than at any time since 1952.
Click to expand...

Yet, when people actually show up to vote the Democratic party typically does very well.
 
That begs the question. Why don't they show up?
 
KLATTU said:
Interesting essay by Jonah Goldberg.

Is Liberalism Exhausted? - Jonah Goldberg - Page 2

MSNBC had thought it could mimic Fox News' success from the left. The problem is that it never understood what Fox News is. MSNBC's execs saw it through the prism of their own ideological bias and so ended up offering a left-wing caricature of a caricature. Contrary to myth, Fox (where I am a contributor) is in fact an actual news network, albeit with prime-time opinion shows. Meanwhile, a study by Pew found that MSNBC was 85 percent opinion.

The more salient point is that there's such a small appetite for that opinion. As Josh Kraushaar of the National Journal recently observed, Barack Obama has successfully moved his party to the left but has failed utterly to bring the rest of the country with him. In 2012, James Stimson, arguably America's leading expert on U.S. public opinion, found that the country was more conservative than at any time since 1952.
Click to expand...

I am never sure, what is meant, when people speak of "liberalism". You see, it is not at all liberal in the original meaning of the word; more the opposite of "left".
 
KLATTU said:
That begs the question. Why don't they show up?
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Most of the time, because there are no liberal candidates to vote for. Most of the Democratic leadership is center-right because in reality, they only serve corporate interests and mostly just try to avoid talking about the things most Democrats and liberals care about. The Democrats are the party of "not Republican." They don't stand for liberal stances -- they avoid them.

Unlike Republicans, Democrats won't herd around a candidate for the sake of making sure the party wins. If there's no one they like, they don't show up.

There are plenty of liberals out there to make a formidable party. We see that clearly every time a ballot goes up for a vote -- the liberals come out in force, and they win quite frequently. Hell, look at 2014. Republicans may have took the seats, but liberals absolutely cleaned house on the ballots.

Why did that happen? Why didn't Democrats win, if so many liberals are out there? Because most Democratic candidates aren't liberal. As far as the politicians on offer, there are simply no liberals to vote for, in most cases. So they don't bother, because liberals won't support the party just for the sake of doing so. They don't vote if there's no one appealing.
 
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SmokeAndMirrors said:
Most of the time, because there are no liberal candidates to vote for. Most of the Democratic leadership is center-right because in reality, they only serve corporate interests and mostly just try to avoid talking about the things most Democrats and liberals care about. The Democrats are the party of "not Republican." They don't stand for liberal stances -- they avoid them.

Unlike Republicans, Democrats won't herd around a candidate for the sake of making sure the party wins. If there's no one they like, they don't show up.

There are plenty of liberals out there to make a formidable party. We see that clearly every time a ballot goes up for a vote -- the liberals come out in force, and they win quite frequently. Hell, look at 2014. Republicans may have took the seats, but liberals absolutely cleaned house on the ballots.

Why did that happen? Why didn't Democrats win, if so many liberals are out there? Because most Democratic candidates aren't liberal. As far as the politicians on offer, there are simply no liberals to vote for, in most cases. So they don't bother, because liberals won't support the party just for the sake of doing so. They don't vote if there's no one appealing.
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LOL. Well I guess this one cancelesl out since every place you put liberal and Democrat I would put conservative and Republican. Matter of opinion obviously .
 
KLATTU said:
That begs the question. Why don't they show up?
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Apathy? Bad ground game in non-presidential years? Demographics that aren't as consistent as Republican voters?

Democrats would love to answer that question. If you could definitely find the answer and how to fix it you could be a rich man as a political operative.
 
iliveonramen said:
Apathy? Bad ground game in non-presidential years? Demographics that aren't as consistent as Republican voters?

Democrats would love to answer that question. If you could definitely find the answer and how to fix it you could be a rich man as a political operative.
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I'm sure Republicans would love to answer it as well.

I really have no explanation as to why Obama won so handily in 2012, yet two years later the Democrats got shellacked. Things certainly didn't get that much worse in 2 years. I guess one would have to conclude that Obama is a good campaigner??
 
iliveonramen said:
Yet, when people actually show up to vote the Democratic party typically does very well.
Click to expand...

Because most Democrats don't realize their party has been hijacked, and pay almost no attention to world events and politics to begin with.
 
KLATTU said:
I'm sure Republicans would love to answer it as well.

I really have no explanation as to why Obama won so handily in 2012, yet two years later the Democrats got shellacked. Things certainly didn't get that much worse in 2 years. I guess one would have to conclude that Obama is a good campaigner??
Click to expand...

That's what I've heard mentioned. When he's not on the ticket people don't show up
 
Typically the party that's in the WH gets it's ass handed to them in the mid term elections. The biggest mid term blood bath was during the most popular president of the 20th century 2 term, FDR. In 1938 the Dems lost 71 seats in the House, and lost 6 in the Senate. FDR's approval rating was 60% at the time. That's damn good, yet the Dems got destroyed in the elections. 1958 Ike's midterm elections the GOP lost 48 in the House, and lost 13 in the Senate.

13 Dem House seats and 6 Senate lost in 2014 seem paltry compared to those numbers in 38, 58 and even 2010..

The GOP will be lucky to hold onto the Senate in 2016.
 
KLATTU said:
Contrary to myth, Fox (where I am a contributor) is in fact an actual news network, albeit with prime-time opinion shows. Meanwhile, a study by Pew found that MSNBC was 85 percent opinion.
Click to expand...

That fact is the reason that the left has made it a priority to attack Fox News so relentlessly. Fox News offers ALL the facts, which poses the single greatest threat to the progressive movement today.
 
iliveonramen said:
Yet, when people actually show up to vote the Democratic party typically does very well.
Click to expand...

I find that to be a weak argument. If Democrats cared about our government, they SHOULD have showed up. It's very un-American (literally) to not vote. I would be happy with a Democrat or Republican turnout so long as everyone exercised the right that thousands died to give them.

Poor excuse for losing an election.
 
11Bravo said:
I find that to be a weak argument. If Democrats cared about our government, they SHOULD have showed up. It's very un-American (literally) to not vote. I would be happy with a Democrat or Republican turnout so long as everyone exercised the right that thousands died to give them.

Poor excuse for losing an election.
Click to expand...

I vote every election, but I'm not surprised a lot of people are turned off. Gridlock and the idea that people's vote doesn't count for much turns off a lot of people.

Mid term elections are usually bad for the party in power, the people out of power are pissed off and the people in power are dissapointed.
 
iliveonramen said:
I vote every election, but I'm not surprised a lot of people are turned off. Gridlock and the idea that people's vote doesn't count for much turns off a lot of people.

Mid term elections are usually bad for the party in power, the people out of power are pissed off and the people in power are dissapointed.
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I still think it's a sorry excuse for a loss. If one's party doesn't come out to vote, why should they have any power? Take Obama for instance. They came out and voted their hearts out for the Presidential election. The democrats are happy that Obama is President, right? However, they HATE that the Republican "do nothing" congress is blocking Obama's ideas...they complain constantly of the Republican congress, and then don't come out and vote.

If you ask me, it's pretty friggin pathetic.
 
11Bravo said:
I still think it's a sorry excuse for a loss. If one's party doesn't come out to vote, why should they have any power? Take Obama for instance. They came out and voted their hearts out for the Presidential election. The democrats are happy that Obama is President, right? However, they HATE that the Republican "do nothing" congress is blocking Obama's ideas...they complain constantly of the Republican congress, and then don't come out and vote.

If you ask me, it's pretty friggin pathetic.
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It happens to both parties. My main point was that making broad statements (Liberalism is exhausted) over a midterm election isn't very sound. Presidential elections are much better gauges when determining the direction of the country since turnout is always higher.

The party not in the White House is always more energized during mid terms
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Typically the party that's in the WH gets it's ass handed to them in the mid term elections. The biggest mid term blood bath was during the most popular president of the 20th century 2 term, FDR. In 1938 the Dems lost 71 seats in the House, and lost 6 in the Senate. FDR's approval rating was 60% at the time. That's damn good, yet the Dems got destroyed in the elections. 1958 Ike's midterm elections the GOP lost 48 in the House, and lost 13 in the Senate.

13 Dem House seats and 6 Senate lost in 2014 seem paltry compared to those numbers in 38, 58 and even 2010..

The GOP will be lucky to hold onto the Senate in 2016.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't agree, most senate seats up In 2016 feature popular republicans and popular democrats. I can't bet this far out, but I'm guessing 2016 senate will be a holding pattern, with 1 or 2 seat swings.

I'm going to be working hard to get Murray out of office in WA though
 
iliveonramen said:
It happens to both parties. My main point was that making broad statements (Liberalism is exhausted) over a midterm election isn't very sound. Presidential elections are much better gauges when determining the direction of the country since turnout is always higher.

The party not in the White House is always more energized during mid terms
Click to expand...

I would say that 90% of politicians are elected out of spite.
 
KLATTU said:
Interesting essay by Jonah Goldberg.

Is Liberalism Exhausted? - Jonah Goldberg - Page 2

MSNBC had thought it could mimic Fox News' success from the left. The problem is that it never understood what Fox News is. MSNBC's execs saw it through the prism of their own ideological bias and so ended up offering a left-wing caricature of a caricature. Contrary to myth, Fox (where I am a contributor) is in fact an actual news network, albeit with prime-time opinion shows. Meanwhile, a study by Pew found that MSNBC was 85 percent opinion.

The more salient point is that there's such a small appetite for that opinion. As Josh Kraushaar of the National Journal recently observed, Barack Obama has successfully moved his party to the left but has failed utterly to bring the rest of the country with him. In 2012, James Stimson, arguably America's leading expert on U.S. public opinion, found that the country was more conservative than at any time since 1952.
Click to expand...



The US only has two parties..


So just think on that for a minute. The Neo Nazi, the Gay leftist, the Communist, the Social Conservative, the Business Conservative, the Blue Dog Democrat, the Libertarian, the Socialist, the Moderate, at the end of the day all those people are going to vote GOP or DNC and all together. That explains everything. So many factions that would gladly jail the other are all voting for the same party. So in that sense it's easy to understand.


In all honesty I've no doubt in my mind that a Socialist/Communist News Channel or an openly Far-Right News channel would do extremely well in ratings in the US. I don't doubt it for a second. There's a lot of people who have views that have nowhere to go. Nothing to watch. No party to vote for. That's why FOX or MSNBC can always go further and still get away with it. There's a lot of Americans that they know they can reach by doing so without having to admit to doing so.
 
Ryan5 said:
The US only has two parties..


So just think on that for a minute. The Neo Nazi, the Gay leftist, the Communist, the Social Conservative, the Business Conservative, the Blue Dog Democrat, the Libertarian, the Socialist, the Moderate, at the end of the day all those people are going to vote GOP or DNC and all together. That explains everything. So many factions that would gladly jail the other are all voting for the same party. So in that sense it's easy to understand.


In all honesty I've no doubt in my mind that a Socialist/Communist News Channel or an openly Far-Right News channel would do extremely well in ratings in the US. I don't doubt it for a second. There's a lot of people who have views that have nowhere to go. Nothing to watch. No party to vote for. That's why FOX or MSNBC can always go further and still get away with it. There's a lot of Americans that they know they can reach by doing so without having to admit to doing so.
Click to expand...

I sort of agree. I would add that they also hire smokin' hot babes to report the news (FOX). Half the time, I was never listening to what Jenna Lee was actually reporting.
 
11Bravo said:
I sort of agree. I would add that they also hire smokin' hot babes to report the news (FOX). Half the time, I was never listening to what Jenna Lee was actually reporting.
Click to expand...

There's this one new conservative news channel, "one America" or something like that, anyways it's basically gone all the way with their female newscaster. Like some bombshell that clearly never had to work again in her life after age 18 if she didn't want to. So yeah, I think as the Western world progresses and more groups get the rights and protections they're owed under the law that we will see (hopefully) True Far Right and Far Left news channels that state exactly what they're about.

I'd be an avid watcher of both the Communist News Channel and the Nationalist News Channel if they were to come into being.
 
Ryan5 said:
There's this one new conservative news channel, "one America" or something like that, anyways it's basically gone all the way with their female newscaster. Like some bombshell that clearly never had to work again in her life after age 18 if she didn't want to. So yeah, I think as the Western world progresses and more groups get the rights and protections they're owed under the law that we will see (hopefully) True Far Right and Far Left news channels that state exactly what they're about.

I'd be an avid watcher of both the Communist News Channel and the Nationalist News Channel if they were to come into being.
Click to expand...

Booobs are making us dumber :)
 
klattu said:
interesting essay by jonah goldberg.

is liberalism exhausted? - jonah goldberg - page 2

msnbc had thought it could mimic fox news' success from the left. The problem is that it never understood what fox news is. Msnbc's execs saw it through the prism of their own ideological bias and so ended up offering a left-wing caricature of a caricature. Contrary to myth, fox (where i am a contributor) is in fact an actual news network, albeit with prime-time opinion shows. Meanwhile, a study by pew found that msnbc was 85 percent opinion.

The more salient point is that there's such a small appetite for that opinion. As josh kraushaar of the national journal recently observed, barack obama has successfully moved his party to the left but has failed utterly to bring the rest of the country with him. In 2012, james stimson, arguably america's leading expert on u.s. Public opinion, found that the country was more conservative than at any time since 1952.
Click to expand...

i don't see it this way, the party was already left, it not need the president to do that...add to that..i don't see it more conservative, since the older generations are dying out, and the ones coming up have been taught in institutions that government is here for them, and its part of its duty to take care of them, if they cannot.
 
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