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The Obamas: How We Deal with Racism [W:305, 407]

In what alternate universe did I deny that sexism exists?

In the alternate universe that you rushed to berate me for posting what I did. You're not this obtuse. But carry on. I need to remember to learn my place. Only blacks are allowed to talk about people not always treating them right. Women (those of us who have experienced sexism), we aren't, apparently.

I'm off to Target now to help get something off the shelf for someone. After all, women were put on this Earth to serve others.
 
In the alternate universe that you rushed to berate me for posting what I did. You're not this obtuse. But carry on. I need to remember to learn my place. Only blacks are allowed to talk about people not always treating them right. Women (those of us who have experienced sexism), we aren't, apparently.

I'm off to Target now to help get something off the shelf for someone. After all, women were put on this Earth to serve others.

Not even remotely close to anything I posted, but OK. Have fun at Target.

For the record, men have no business accusing women of "whining" about sexism, either. But that wasn't the thread topic.
 
"I tell this story – I mean, even as the first lady – during that wonderfully publicized trip I took to Target, not highly disguised, the only person who came up to me in the store was a woman who asked me to help her take something off a shelf. Because she didn't see me as the first lady, she saw me as someone who could help her. Those kinds of things happen in life. So it isn't anything new."


Is she ****ing for real? That happens to me all the time because I'm ****ing tall. And I'm white.

That's possibly the biggest piece of BS ever to come out of the horses mouth. Barry and Michelle decide to goo shopping. The parking lot is cleared. The store is swept. 25 secret service surround the two of them. No one got within 50 feet, let alone asked them for help.

BTW, recently at a popular BBQ shop with a 2.5 hour long line, Barry was allowed to cut in line. And did, and no one thought he was working the pit. I guess they forgot about that lunch.
 
When I'm as lucky as you are and are never viewed as a second class citizen because I'm a woman, I won't play any card. I'm not so lucky.

I guess I'm just supposed to keep my mouth shut and accept it, right? Apparently. I "offended" you by mentioning that some women (not you apparently) don't always get treated the way we should. Sorry to have offended you. Next time I'll learn my place.

But the thread isn't sexism it's about racial prejudice, right? Considering you are always the one to always tell people to keep on topic I'm surprised you tried to go off topic by comparing racism to sexism. So because others treat you bad because you are a blonde women, people who talk about being treated differently because they are (insert race here) need to stop whining? Do you think there is a difference sexism vs racism?
 
Whatever. Go on rushing to defend Michelle Obama who think everyone who asks for help in a Target is doing it because that person assumes she's still a slave. And by all means, keep ignoring that women are also still not held in the highest esteem by everyone. I know otherwise. When you're a woman, you let me know.

:lol: okay. Show where she said that or even close to that.


We are not ignoring sexism, it's just not the topic. I know how you love to stay on topic and mention it to everyone you think is off topic so I thought I'd bring it up to you when you do it as well. :mrgreen:
 
"I tell this story – I mean, even as the first lady – during that wonderfully publicized trip I took to Target, not highly disguised, the only person who came up to me in the store was a woman who asked me to help her take something off a shelf. Because she didn't see me as the first lady, she saw me as someone who could help her. Those kinds of things happen in life. So it isn't anything new."

Lemme get this straight, someone asked her for help and she's thinking "How dare you talk to me or even approach me, don't you know who I am. Away with you, commoner"

I'm sorry but if that pissed off Michelle then she's got bigger problems than race.
 
Shorter: "Racism doesn't exist anymore."

(Groan) why does every liberal resort to that strawman?
Of course it exists . But there is a grand canyon's worth of difference between the 60's and now.
 
But the thread isn't sexism it's about racial prejudice, right? Considering you are always the one to always tell people to keep on topic I'm surprised you tried to go off topic by comparing racism to sexism. So because others treat you bad because you are a blonde women, people who talk about being treated differently because they are (insert race here) need to stop whining? Do you think there is a difference sexism vs racism?

And the thread was also not about Americanwoman's experience with racism, but that didn't stop you from berating me over my post because I addressed an -ism and didn't acknowledge you being racially treated differently. The thread was about the Obamas. And the post of mine that got you "offended" was my response to Kobie for slapping me down for not boohooing about the mistreatment these poor unfortunate Obamas have been dealt their entire lives, and pointing out to him that I also know what it's like to not be viewed as a first class citizen. So you want to comment on someone going off topic I suggest you direct it at Kobie who decided that I have no "frame of reference" for knowing what it's like to be treated as a second class citizen without the value of someone from another group. The thread also wasn't about me and my frames of reference.

There is no difference between sexism and racism, and as recently as 15 years ago I would not have been able to be at the level of my job that I am today.

Yes, people who are enormously successful don't have to whine about being treated differently. The Obama were treated differently. Most people in this country don't get to be President and don't get 6 figure salaries with hospitals. That's what makes them different. They don't have the decency to admit it and instead pretend people are approaching them in Target because they think blacks should be serving them or that people mistake them for car valets.

In the future, I'll call out the Obama's whining for what it is without worrying about offending people because I don't jump on the "Oh those poor mistreated Obamas" bandwagon.
 
Since when did feeling ostricized and offended for trivial things become something only people with dark skin can experience and/or have the right to talk about? For goodness sakes, a sizable percent of our population, regardless of skin color, has been denigrated, demeaned, ostricized, excluded, and humiliated just for being who they are. It's called middle school. Unfortuntely, some people don't develop past that stage and we all have to deal with that. Assuming that because someone is white they cannot have felt similarly ostricized or denigrated is just as racist as assuming that black people are all there to help you carry stuff is just as racist as assuming that a white person can't ask a black person for help without a racist ulterior motive.

People are people. I know that psychologically, we want to feel like the group we identify with is special (better at stuff or unique in some way). That doesn't mean that the experiences black individuals have are so vastly different from any other people that basic human empathy cannot bridge that gap in comprehension. The belief that there is such a vast difference strikes me as naive and quite condescending.
 
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Reading this was disgusting to me. Do these people feel their entitlement so much that when people don't know who they are, they automatically think it's racism?

The Obamas: How We Deal with Our Own Racist Experiences - Ferguson, politics, Barack Obama, Michelle Obama : People.com

You mean just reading the intro and not the full article (interview) got you fired up huh? wow.

Unless you're a black person, you wouldn't probably know what racist innuendos are to begin with. If you have any black friends, ask them sometime what they think about little subtle hints of racism, and how they feel it affects them.
 
There is no difference between sexism and racism, and as recently as 15 years ago I would not have been able to be at the level of my job that I am today.

Yes, people who are enormously successful don't have to whine about being treated differently. The Obama were treated differently. Most people in this country don't get to be President and don't get 6 figure salaries with hospitals. That's what makes them different. They don't have the decency to admit it and instead pretend people are approaching them in Target because they think blacks should be serving them or that people mistake them for car valets.

In the future, I'll call out the Obama's whining for what it is without worrying about offending people because I don't jump on the "Oh those poor mistreated Obamas" bandwagon.

That's your opinion they are not different. They are both bad but they are not exactly the same, therefore they are different. Also you are saying in 1999 there is no way you could not have held the same position? No way at all?? I find that hard to believe.


I don't see any whining by the Obamas and at no point did Michelle say the incident in Target has anything to do with being black - please point out exactly where she did. They are pointing out that while still being successfull they have still dealt with racial prejudice. You dislike the Obama's that much is obvious but that doesn't downplay they have been victims of racial prejudice and them pointing that out is not whining about it at all. I could say by you pointing out your hardships as a blonde woman in the workforce that it comes off as whining but it's not or is it?
 
And guess what? Even with their accomplishments, there's a lot of people in this country that see them as just another nigger.

White people have NO BUSINESS claiming that black people "whine too much" when it comes to racism. You simply have no comparable frame of reference.

Actually, we have to talk about this and it means being serious about what we see. Until we evaluate what is and is not racism then what we do about it, we have no expectation that things will change.
 
"I tell this story – I mean, even as the first lady – during that wonderfully publicized trip I took to Target, not highly disguised, the only person who came up to me in the store was a woman who asked me to help her take something off a shelf. Because she didn't see me as the first lady, she saw me as someone who could help her. Those kinds of things happen in life. So it isn't anything new."

Lemme get this straight, someone asked her for help and she's thinking "How dare you talk to me or even approach me, don't you know who I am. Away with you, commoner"

I'm sorry but if that pissed off Michelle then she's got bigger problems than race.

You don't have it straight.

She says, pretty clearly, that those kinds of incidents are things that happen to everyone (e.g. white or black, short or tall, man or woman - everybody).

They just sort of happen in life.

"Excuse me ma'am, could you help me reach that can of beans?"

"Excuse me young fella, do you work here?"

They've happened to me, they've happened to you, they've happened to the First Lady.

But when was the last time you were standing outside a restaurant in a suit and tie and someone handed you their keys and expected you to park their car? Or walked up to you at a formal event when you were in a tux and just assumed it was cool to send you to fetch coffee?

Those things have never happened to me, because I'm white, and when I'm in a suit people assume I'm a guest or a boss or something, not a common laborer dressed up nice so I don't offend sensibilities with my baggy jeans and hoodie.

Not huge things by any means, but certainly small indignities.

Now, as tres borrachos very nicely and plainly explains in the third or fourth comment in this discussion, the lack of racism the Obamas have encountered, both separately and as a couple, in this country far and away trumps the small indignities they've suffered as a result of soft racism. If anything they should be highlighting how far America has come in respect to race relations rather than pandering to the lowest-common-denominator race hustle.

But they're just trashy people.

So it's to be expected that they'd do something trashy like this.

The fact that they're trash doesn't mean that racism isn't real, and that it isn't still experienced by black folks in America today, but they're leaders who should be trying to lead us out of the recent impasse in race relations that has resulted from the police killings of a handful of black criminals rather than trying to capitalize on it for political gain.

Scumbags, the two of them.
 
"I tell this story – I mean, even as the first lady – during that wonderfully publicized trip I took to Target, not highly disguised, the only person who came up to me in the store was a woman who asked me to help her take something off a shelf. Because she didn't see me as the first lady, she saw me as someone who could help her. Those kinds of things happen in life. So it isn't anything new."


Is she ****ing for real? That happens to me all the time because I'm ****ing tall. And I'm white.

Yep, me too. I'm brown, but I look white. :mrgreen: Furthermore, I'm more than happy to do it.
 
and as recently as 15 years ago I would not have been able to be at the level of my job that I am today.

Yes, people who are enormously successful don't have to whine about being treated differently.



I just want to add that Tres - you are an enormously successful working women based on being at the level of job you are that you couldn't have been 15 years ago and I think that is great. But in your own words, do you think because you as one woman who was able to conquer your field, you cannot talk or whine about women being treated differently in the workforce? If you had your ass pinched two times in the past while climbing the ladder, I think you have every right to talk about it and how it made you feel bad and then how would you feel if someone downplayed that and said stop your whining because they felt a different kind of discrimination at some point in a different circumstance. It's not that I was overly offended but it was somewhat hurtful to me that it seemed you tried to downplay it like it doesn't matter how some people have felt racial discrimination because you have felt sexism and they need to stop whining about it. I might have gotten a little heated and if you were offended in any way I do apologize because like I said I do like you but I think they are not exactly the same.
 
And guess what? Even with their accomplishments, there's a lot of people in this country that see them as just another nigger.

White people have NO BUSINESS claiming that black people "whine too much" when it comes to racism. You simply have no comparable frame of reference.

On the contrary, apparently I'm responsible for all the poverty and prejudice in the country, and to even complain about the President's policies is seen as proof I don't like the idea of a Black man in the White House.

Perhaps you could get a clue every once in awhile. I would add so much to the conversation!
 
You don't have it straight.

She says, pretty clearly, that those kinds of incidents are things that happen to everyone (e.g. white or black, short or tall, man or woman - everybody).

They just sort of happen in life.

"Excuse me ma'am, could you help me reach that can of beans?"

"Excuse me young fella, do you work here?"

They've happened to me, they've happened to you, they've happened to the First Lady.

But when was the last time you were standing outside a restaurant in a suit and tie and someone handed you their keys and expected you to park their car? Or walked up to you at a formal event when you were in a tux and just assumed it was cool to send you to fetch coffee?

Those things have never happened to me, because I'm white, and when I'm in a suit people assume I'm a guest or a boss or something, not a common laborer dressed up nice so I don't offend sensibilities with my baggy jeans and hoodie.

Not huge things by any means, but certainly small indignities.

Now, as tres borrachos very nicely and plainly explains in the third or fourth comment in this discussion, the lack of racism the Obamas have encountered, both separately and as a couple, in this country far and away trumps the small indignities they've suffered as a result of soft racism. If anything they should be highlighting how far America has come in respect to race relations rather than pandering to the lowest-common-denominator race hustle.

But they're just trashy people.

So it's to be expected that they'd do something trashy like this.

The fact that they're trash doesn't mean that racism isn't real, and that it isn't still experienced by black folks in America today, but they're leaders who should be trying to lead us out of the recent impasse in race relations that has resulted from the police killings of a handful of black criminals rather than trying to capitalize on it for political gain.

Scumbags, the two of them.

When she uses the Target example like she did, which apparently caused an eyeroll to some observers besides me, it takes away from whatever point she was trying to make with her other examples.
Makes you question how valid those other examples are, or even if they're genuine.
 
Reading this was disgusting to me. Do these people feel their entitlement so much that when people don't know who they are, they automatically think it's racism?

The Obamas: How We Deal with Our Own Racist Experiences - Ferguson, politics, Barack Obama, Michelle Obama : People.com



This perfectly identifies the race problem in America today.

Try as I might, I could not find one complaint that could be clearly identified as racist. And how petty! Michelle Obama is the worst, she shows up at Target where NO ONE is expecting her and a white woman, presumably, asked her to get something off a high shelf. Now we don't need to ask what would have been her response had the other woman been black?

Now let's face it, Michelle Obama does not look, dress, nor act like a First Lady, she's a shill for her husband and a shrill one at that. Does she have a right to be respected as such?

My late wife was Chinese Canadian as are my daughters. The theme that my wife taught us all was to look at ourselves first; that perceived act of race based treatment may be perceived that was because she was expecting it.

Neither Barry nor Michelle are particularly good at looking inward, I doubt either has ever admitted a mistake. It is highly doubtful either paused for a second in this list of horrible wrongs to see if there had not been some inherent bias on their part, kind of like me thinking "typical" when I see a bad Asian driver.

The offense here, and an egregious one at that, is the pettiness of these complaints. ""There's no black male my age, who's a professional, who hasn't come out of a restaurant and is waiting for their car and somebody didn't hand them their car keys," said the president, adding that, yes, it had happened to him."


There has been a summer of riots in his nation's streets, New York is primed to explode and he's on about being mistaken for a valet.


 
When she uses the Target example like she did, which apparently caused an eyeroll to some observers besides me, it takes away from whatever point she was trying to make with her other examples.
Makes you question how valid those other examples are, or even if they're genuine.

Not at all.

What she was saying in the Target example was, "This kind of stuff (stuff that happened in Target) happens to everybody. That's not the kind of stuff that I'm talking about. I'm talking about this other stuff (which the article went on to enumerate)."

The problem isn't what she said, the problem is the average American's piss poor ability to analyze.
 
The average height of an American woman is 5'7".

Michelle Obama is 5'11" tall.

I am the same height as Michelle.

In my WallMart, I couldn't reach the Alpo Snaps dog treats on the very to shelf, and there happened to be a man in the aisle checking out dog stuff too, he was easily 6'2" tall, I went over and asked him if he could reach those dog treats for me, because I figured he could do it easier than I. I would have needed a ladder, step stool or would have had to climb onto the bottom shelf to help myself.

Isn't Wallmart discriminating against short people?
 
That's your opinion they are not different. They are both bad but they are not exactly the same, therefore they are different. Also you are saying in 1999 there is no way you could not have held the same position? No way at all?? I find that hard to believe.


I don't see any whining by the Obamas and at no point did Michelle say the incident in Target has anything to do with being black - please point out exactly where she did. They are pointing out that while still being successfull they have still dealt with racial prejudice. You dislike the Obama's that much is obvious but that doesn't downplay they have been victims of racial prejudice and them pointing that out is not whining about it at all. I could say by you pointing out your hardships as a blonde woman in the workforce that it comes off as whining but it's not or is it?

The Obamas: How We Deal with Racism

Read the article and that will answer your question in bold. Was she telling a non-related to racism (a/k/a her being black and being mistreated by white people) anecdote? If so, why is it printed in an article about how she dealt with racism?

And as far as the Obamas being "victims" of racial prejudice, yes they are victims indeed. It must suck to get into Princeton and Harvard, make a mid-6-figure salary in a hospital, and go to sleep every night as the master of the White House. My heart goes out to them.

To answer your question of could I have gotten this role in 1999, the answer is still no. I am the third woman in the history of my division to be promoted to management. And it didn't happen to me until 2008. Which is why to this day the senior management looks on me as a sweet young blonde thing who's good at what she does but isn't half as capable as Jim, Don, Jay, Tim and Jamie. Which is why to this day my male counterparts get a higher salary than I do. Which is why to this day my male counterparts get asked to go golfing with the President of my division and go to see baseball games with the Executive Vice Presidents. I was told once that the President was "surprised" to hear that I like sports. Apparently he assumed I enjoy trips to the beauty parlor and tea parties. Which is why my boss' boss (a black man) once said "You do not! You really like sports?" when I said I have DirecTV because I needed to make sure I got the NY Rangers and NY Giants in New England.

Am I a victim? No. But is there a difference in the way that women are treated by chauvinists? Yes there is. Could I have gone further in my company if I was a white male? No question. So to the people who tell me I have no frame of reference in being viewed as less than white males, I say a big **** you.
 
I'm curious... Since it is impossible to eradicate racism completely, does this mean that it will be used as club to beat white people up with as long as man kind exists on planet earth? Is there no expiration date on the societal racism of the past, or is there a specific number of generations or years that have to have passed before it's political exploitation comes to an end?

Until Obama took office, Americans saw racism steadily decline since the 60's. I really hope that once he's out of office the race baiting by the left will subside and we can see it trend downward again.
 
The average height of an American woman is 5'7".

Michelle Obama is 5'11" tall.

I am the same height as Michelle.

In my WallMart, I couldn't reach the Alpo Snaps dog treats on the very to shelf, and there happened to be a man in the aisle checking out dog stuff too, he was easily 6'2" tall, I went over and asked him if he could reach those dog treats for me, because I figured he could do it easier than I. I would have needed a ladder, step stool or would have had to climb onto the bottom shelf to help myself.

Isn't Wallmart discriminating against short people?

I'm taller than 6' 2". That happens to me a couple of times a year. I've never thought of it as anything more than helping someone solving a small problem. Now, thanks to Michelle, I realize I am being thought of as just another store stocker being discriminated against.

Again, unless the Target incident was a set up photo op to show Michelle's compassion for the little guy, it didn't happen.
 
The Obamas: How We Deal with Racism

Read the article and that will answer your question in bold. Was she telling a non-related to racism (a/k/a her being black and being mistreated by white people) anecdote? If so, why is it printed in an article about how she dealt with racism?

And as far as the Obamas being "victims" of racial prejudice, yes they are victims indeed. It must suck to get into Princeton and Harvard, make a mid-6-figure salary in a hospital, and go to sleep every night as the master of the White House. My heart goes out to them.

To answer your question of could I have gotten this role in 1999, the answer is still no. I am the third woman in the history of my division to be promoted to management. And it didn't happen to me until 2008. Which is why to this day the senior management looks on me as a sweet young blonde thing who's good at what she does but isn't half as capable as Jim, Don, Jay, Tim and Jamie. Which is why to this day my male counterparts get a higher salary than I do. Which is why to this day my male counterparts get asked to go golfing with the President of my division and go to see baseball games with the Executive Vice Presidents. I was told once that the President was "surprised" to hear that I like sports. Apparently he assumed I enjoy trips to the beauty parlor and tea parties. Which is why my boss' boss (a black man) once said "You do not! You really like sports?" when I said I have DirecTV because I needed to make sure I got the NY Rangers and NY Giants in New England.

Am I a victim? No. But is there a difference in the way that women are treated by chauvinists? Yes there is. Could I have gone further in my company if I was a white male? No question. So to the people who tell me I have no frame of reference in being viewed as less than white males, I say a big **** you.

I'm a white male who comes from extreme poverty. I started life in a whole and, just now, at age thirty-four, after a ten year career in the military, I am just now a year and a half away from a degree and "the white man's expected career path." I am fourteen years behind the curve. My expected earnings potential from a "normal" career path is extremely limited, because my age is going to be seen as a handicap when I have the industry experience needed to apply for senior management positions.

Even white men can be passed over as inferior to other white men... or anyone else. A young, articulate black woman from a family of reasonable means is going to have a much better life than I am, simply because she started farther up the ladder. My goal is to make sure my kids have every advantage possible, and that's really all I can do. That being said, a black person who starts off in poverty is going to have at least as hard a time or harder as a white person in a similar position. A woman is going to have as hard a time or harder as a man in a similar position.

What positions we are in is all relative. Gender isn't the most important qualifier. Race isn't the most important qualifier. Family wealth isn't the most important qualifier. But they do all work together to paint a picture of struggle. Undoubtedly, a black woman from a poor family faces more challenges than anyone else in this country. That being said, a white woman can easily identify with discrimination. And so can a white man, for that matter.
 
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