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MediaMatters Montage on Hobby Lobby Ruling[W:38]

Amadeus

Amadeus

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Various women vs. Hobby Lobby decision.

 
Re: MediaMatters Montage on Hobby Lobby Ruling

I only watched a few seconds of the vid, and she is the one who is dead wrong. Women already had access to free or very inexpensive birth control. This issue is about abortifacients as opposed to regular preventative birth control products. If the women who work for HL don't like the bennies, they can go find employment elsewhere, just as I have always done. I am pro-choice, but I have a deep personal aversion to my tax dollars paying for abortion, because I believe abortion is killing a person. If I owned a company which provided insurance for my employees, I would feel the same way as those representing HL.

Imo, it may be your right to kill your baby, but it's not your right to expect others to pay for it.
 
Re: MediaMatters Montage on Hobby Lobby Ruling

Amadeus said:
Various women vs. Hobby Lobby decision.

Click to expand...



Why do you think the Progressive Machine is so willing to spread this propaganda, when the truth of the matter is so easy to find and read?

Do you think it's because people who depend on sites like MM only stick to Progressive Machine websites, so they will likely never learn for themselves, or is it something else?
 
Re: MediaMatters Montage on Hobby Lobby Ruling

Amadeus said:
Various women vs. Hobby Lobby decision.

Click to expand...


Various beggers and cheapskates demanding other people pay for (4) types of contraceptives. What a bunch of tools
 
Re: MediaMatters Montage on Hobby Lobby Ruling

lizzie said:
Imo, it may be your right to kill your baby, but it's not your right to expect others to pay for it.
Click to expand...

1) The same people who support the Hobby Lobby decision tend to be same people who advocate for the de-funding of Planned Parenthood.

2) Kill your baby? Nice hyperbole.
 
Re: MediaMatters Montage on Hobby Lobby Ruling

Amadeus said:
1) The same people who support the Hobby Lobby decision tend to be same people who advocate for the de-funding of Planned Parenthood.

2) Kill your baby? Nice hyperbole.
Click to expand...

Yeah, kill your baby. It is what I perceive it to be. It's a baby human, and abortion is an intentional act of killing it. As for PP, I don't support defunding it at all. It fills a need for many young women, and is a great resource for birth control.
 
Re: MediaMatters Montage on Hobby Lobby Ruling

lizzie said:
I only watched a few seconds of the vid, and she is the one who is dead wrong. Women already had access to free or very inexpensive birth control. This issue is about abortifacients as opposed to regular preventative birth control products. If the women who work for HL don't like the bennies, they can go find employment elsewhere, just as I have always done. I am pro-choice, but I have a deep personal aversion to my tax dollars paying for abortion, because I believe abortion is killing a person. If I owned a company which provided insurance for my employees, I would feel the same way as those representing HL.

Imo, it may be your right to kill your baby, but it's not your right to expect others to pay for it.
Click to expand...

But your tax dollars are not paying for it. It is just part of the private insurance you provide for your employers and pay some of the premium of... And frankly your employees pay part of those premiums too. I understand you don't want a policy that covers what you feel is killing a human being, but if the insurance company covers it, what does it matter? Shouldn't your beef be with them?

I have issues with the whole idea of employers meddling with what medical proceedures/treatments is covered because it is a slippery slope, and we all have different values. I don't think I should force my values on others and I expect the same.
 
Re: MediaMatters Montage on Hobby Lobby Ruling

lizzie said:
Yeah, kill your baby. It is what I perceive it to be. It's a baby human, and abortion is an intentional act of killing it. As for PP, I don't support defunding it at all. It fills a need for many young women, and is a great resource for birth control.
Click to expand...

If you believe that a baby exists at the moment of conception, of course you're going to support the vehemently un-American corporatist decision of imposing that viewpoint on employees through selective denial of coverage.

There's 3 minutes of opinions that challenge yours in that clip, and you could only make through a few seconds before turning away in disgust. Obviously I'm not going to do much better.
 
Re: MediaMatters Montage on Hobby Lobby Ruling

ocean515 said:
Why do you think the Progressive Machine is so willing to spread this propaganda, when the truth of the matter is so easy to find and read?

Do you think it's because people who depend on sites like MM only stick to Progressive Machine websites, so they will likely never learn for themselves
Click to expand...
,
or is it something else?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Nope. That's it. They just gotta keep the veil over their eyes until after the election. Hell, it's worked many times before.
But we also mustn't discount those who do know better yet patronize those kinds of sources so they know what to repeat.
You may have noticed there's lots of that happening here on DP.
 
Re: MediaMatters Montage on Hobby Lobby Ruling

Amadeus said:
If you believe that a baby exists at the moment of conception, of course you're going to support the vehemently un-American corporatist decision of imposing that viewpoint on employees through selective denial of coverage.

There's 3 minutes of opinions that challenge yours in that clip, and you could only make through a few seconds before turning away in disgust. Obviously I'm not going to do much better.
Click to expand...

No, I didn't turn away in disgust. I just saw it for the BS it is. I could easily make it through that and more. I just don't buy it. As I said, if you want an abortion, pay for it yourself. I don't owe a woman the means to do something which I find wrong- I only owe her the courtesy of recognizing that those legal rights do indeed exist.
 
Re: MediaMatters Montage on Hobby Lobby Ruling

bubbabgone said:
Nope. That's it. They just gotta keep the veil over their eyes until after the election. Hell, it's worked many times before.
But we also mustn't discount those who do know better yet patronize those kinds of sources so they know what to repeat.
You may have noticed there's lots of that happening here on DP.
Click to expand...

Hello my friend. Hope all is well.

I know you are correct. The whole concept MM and similar sites promote has always been impressive to me. Fund, create, and spread invented information, and reality no longer counts. The test in no longer about truth, but about how many believe it.

While I have little but disdain towards the creators of these headline mills, it is a brilliant strategy.
 
Re: MediaMatters Montage on Hobby Lobby Ruling

Silly people saying silly things.
 
Re: MediaMatters Montage on Hobby Lobby Ruling

lizzie said:
No, I didn't turn away in disgust. I just saw it for the BS it is. I could easily make it through that and more. I just don't buy it. As I said, if you want an abortion, pay for it yourself. I don't owe a woman the means to do something which I find wrong- I only owe her the courtesy of recognizing that those legal rights do indeed exist.
Click to expand...

Or maybe an employee has earned appropriate (read: full) health care coverage, and is therefore entitled to use that coverage as befits his/her personal ideology and needs, not the ideology of the employer. If Hobby Lobby only wants to hire people of Christian ideology, then they should screen them appropriately.
 
Re: MediaMatters Montage on Hobby Lobby Ruling

Amadeus said:
Or maybe an employee has earned appropriate (read: full) health care coverage, and is therefore entitled to use that coverage as befits his/her personal ideology, not the ideology of the employer. If Hobby Lobby only wants to hire people of Christian ideology, then they should screen them appropriately.
Click to expand...

It isn't that they want to hire only Christians. It's that they don't want to pay for abortifacient drugs.
 
Re: MediaMatters Montage on Hobby Lobby Ruling

lizzie said:
It isn't that they want to hire only Christians. It's that they don't want to pay for abortifacient drugs.
Click to expand...

They're not paying for them, they're supposed to be providing health care coverage. It's a canard that they are doing anything ideologically abhorrent. If Hobby Lobby pays an employee, and an employee has an abortion that comes out of pocket, its the exact same result. The only difference is that the employee has an increased economic hardship as a result of the employer's ideology.
 
Re: MediaMatters Montage on Hobby Lobby Ruling

lizzie said:
It isn't that they want to hire only Christians. It's that they don't want to pay for abortifacient drugs.
Click to expand...

Amadeus knows this, he's just continuing on with the left wing talking points.:shock:
 
Re: MediaMatters Montage on Hobby Lobby Ruling

Ockham said:
Amadeus knows this, he's just continuing on with the left wing talking points.:shock:
Click to expand...

I can speak for myself, thanks.
 
Re: MediaMatters Montage on Hobby Lobby Ruling

Amadeus said:
They're not paying for them, they're supposed to be providing health care coverage. It's a canard that they are doing anything ideologically abhorrent. If Hobby Lobby pays an employee, and an employee has an abortion that comes out of pocket, its the exact same result. The only difference is that the employee has an increased economic hardship as a result of the employer's ideology.
Click to expand...

Ummmm. not likely. We have PP and other resources with low cost or free drugs and methods available. Aside from that, if you can afford a monthly cell phone bill, I figure you can cough up the money that you need for an emergency abortifacient drug. If the employee is working for Hobby Lobby and pays for her own stuff, that is perfectly legitimate, and is not the same means, and in a question of the ends justifying the means, we're discussing two different issues and concepts here.
 
Re: MediaMatters Montage on Hobby Lobby Ruling

Ockham said:
Amadeus knows this, he's just continuing on with the left wing talking points.:shock:
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know, and he knows he can't persuade me, but he gives it hell. :lol:
 
Re: MediaMatters Montage on Hobby Lobby Ruling

Amadeus said:
I can speak for myself, thanks.
Click to expand...

I never said you couldn't - just pointing out the obvious. This is where you post the left wing talking points again... sorry for the interruption - you were saying?
 
Re: MediaMatters Montage on Hobby Lobby Ruling

lizzie said:
Ummmm. not likely. We have PP and other resources with low cost or free drugs and methods available. Aside from that, if you can afford a monthly cell phone bill, I figure you can cough up the money that you need for an emergency abortifacient drug. If the employee is working for Hobby Lobby and pays for her own stuff, that is perfectly legitimate, and is not the same means, and in a question of the ends justifying the means, we're discussing two different issues and concepts here.
Click to expand...

Hobby Lobby is only paying for an employee benefit (coverage), which the employee can either use or not use. Just like when it contributes to its employee's 401k plan:

67169043d1404185976-supreme-court-backs-hobby-lobby-contraceptive-mandate-challenge-w-513-870-hobbylobby.jpg
 
Re: MediaMatters Montage on Hobby Lobby Ruling

Ockham said:
I never said you couldn't - just pointing out the obvious. This is where you post the left wing talking points again... sorry for the interruption - you were saying?
Click to expand...

Do you know what's obvious? What I write in my posts. When I need an interpreter I'll give you a jingle.
 
Re: MediaMatters Montage on Hobby Lobby Ruling

Amadeus said:
Do you know what's obvious?
Click to expand...

This ..

lizzie said:
It isn't that they want to hire only Christians. It's that they don't want to pay for abortifacient drugs.
Click to expand...

You've been in multiple threads over the past 2 days and this fact has been made abundantly clear. In some of those threads I have provided the SCOTUS summary and oral argument links. You posts still drone on providing misinformation. Another obvious thing seems to be your posts continue with the liberal talking points because of your partisanship and pro left wing stance, leaving one to think the intent of your posts is to mislead. :shrug: Tell me I'm wrong.


Amadeus said:
When I need an interpreter I'll give you a jingle.
Click to expand...
You need a broader view and to assess the facts and not mislead.
 
Re: MediaMatters Montage on Hobby Lobby Ruling

Ockham said:
You've been in multiple threads over the past 2 days and this fact has been made abundantly clear. In some of those threads I have provided the SCOTUS summary and oral argument links. You posts still drone on providing misinformation.
Click to expand...

What misinformation? Quote me specifically.
 
Re: MediaMatters Montage on Hobby Lobby Ruling

Amadeus said:
What misinformation? Quote me specifically.
Click to expand...

You said...

Amadeus said:
Or maybe an employee has earned appropriate (read: full) health care coverage, and is therefore entitled to use that coverage as befits his/her personal ideology and needs, not the ideology of the employer. If Hobby Lobby only wants to hire people of Christian ideology, then they should screen them appropriately.
Click to expand...

To wit lizzie replied....

lizzie said:
It isn't that they want to hire only Christians. It's that they don't want to pay for abortifacient drugs.
Click to expand...

then you replied...

Amadeus said:
They're not paying for them, they're supposed to be providing health care coverage. It's a canard that they are doing anything ideologically abhorrent. If Hobby Lobby pays an employee, and an employee has an abortion that comes out of pocket, its the exact same result.
Click to expand...

You already know HL is paying for 16 of 20 contraceptives, so they are paying for some of them. Saying they are not paying for them is misleading. You've already been in multiple threads where the SCOTUS summary was provided which identifies the 4 contraceptives that HL objected to were viewed by HL as abortifacient drugs and therefore paying for them went against their religious beliefs.

Clear enough? :coffeepap:
 
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