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Oh, Politifact...

Beaudreaux said:
Imagine that, a site run by the Tampa Bay Times, that stalwart purveyor of unbiased reporting (not) is giving there opinion rather than facts??? I would never had guessed that in a thousand years.

They do try, but they have had a number of instances like this when their political bent surfaces.
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The way I read it, they're not wrong:

Our ruling

Cantor said that because of the health care law, "The people who have health care and like it in this country are not going to be able to keep what they have." His statement suggests that losing the health insurance you like is guaranteed by the law.

Cantor’s office backs the claim by noting the law makes it cheaper for companies to drop health coverage for their employees and pay a penalty tax. His office cites the bleakest of nine scenarios in Deloitte studies, under which 42 percent of workers would lose their company insurance.

The Cantor camp doesn’t mention that most of the other scenarios estimate a loss under 10 percent. We found five other studies that conclude the law will cause less than a 3 percent net loss of workers with company insurance. That group includes people expected to voluntarily give up their work policies because they prefer private plans that will become available under the health care act.

Even before the coverage mandate has taken effect, the number of companies that switch their plans each year has been substantial. The health care law is expected to increase that rate modestly, not exponentially as Cantor says.

We rate Cantor’s statement Mostly False.
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I fail to see how this is an opinion at all. Everything in the article is backed up by numbers and studies....
 
pbrauer said:
The way I read it, they're not wrong:
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The problem is, that every policy did change at the very least, or dropped people at the very worst. It may sound like picking nits, but it's true, and therefore makes the statement true, or at minimum, using their scale, Mostly True, rather than Mostly False. People don't have the same plans they did back in 2009. Mine has changed two times, for the worse, with higher co-pays, higher premiums and less coverage, which the less coverage was a direct result of the ACA coverage mandates.

Every major news outlet, including the NY Times, WaPo and CNN are all over this today. And I feel it's just going to get more in depth, which doesn't bode well for the President if it does. Too bad they didn't do this research a few years ago. We all could have made a better and more informed decision, rather than just listening to the politicians speeches.
 
Beaudreaux said:
The problem is, that every policy did change at the very least, or dropped people at the very worst. It may sound like picking nits, but it's true, and therefore makes the statement true, or at minimum, using their scale, Mostly True, rather than Mostly False. People don't have the same plans they did back in 2009. Mine has changed two times, for the worse, with higher co-pays, higher premiums and less coverage, which the less coverage was a direct result of the ACA coverage mandates.

Every major news outlet, including the NY Times, WaPo and CNN are all over this today. And I feel it's just going to get more in depth, which doesn't bode well for the President if it does. Too bad they didn't do this research a few years ago. We all could have made a better and more informed decision, rather than just listening to the politicians speeches.
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and the news media has a short term memory, because this current hoopla over the NBC investigation report is over a story that is actally not that new.

as i pointed out on a different thread

http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news-mainstream-media/176508-obama-admin-knew-millions-could-not-keep-their-health-insurance-13.html
 
jmotivator said:
June 2012 - Poltifact caught giving its Politopinion.

Nailed it, Politifact. Nailed. It.
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I'm not sure I follow. What did they nail? Or, as suggested by your tone, not nail?
Beaudreaux said:
The problem is, that every policy did change at the very least, or dropped people at the very worst.
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The policy I've had through my employer has essentially remained the same for years. In fact, there's a strong likelihood the cost will go down in the next couple of years.

So...yeah.
 
Beaudreaux said:
I saw that thread. My point above is that the media, CNN in particular, is digging deeper than the original story.
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the NBC investigation brought up information that had already been discussed in 2010, i also posted news articles covering the subject of grandfathered health insurance plans.

why is everyone claiming this a bombshell when it already was known 3 years ago?
 
Where's politifact's check of Obama's claims about healthcare?
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
the NBC investigation brought up information that had already been discussed in 2010, i also posted news articles covering the subject of grandfathered health insurance plans.

why is everyone claiming this a bombshell when it already was known 3 years ago?
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Because the story died back then, and now it has legs. The reason for the legs? The continual and mounting problems coming to light. Back then, it was looked at as a one-off and not the norm. That's finally being investigated by the media now, and they WILL get to the facts. Then we'll all know what those facts are, without political spin or manipulation from the right or left. The media is psuhing back on both sides now for their spin. Maybe, just maybe, they'll keep going.
 
Grim17 said:
Where's politifact's check of Obama's claims about healthcare?
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You mean their check which is linked in the article posted in the opening post? It's...uhh...linked in the article linked in the original post.
 
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Slyfox696 said:
You mean their check which is linked in the article posted in the opening post? It's...uhh...linked in the article linked in the original post.

But hey, I'm sure you took at least .01 seconds to search for it before insinuating bias.
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You are right... I didn't see that... The fact that they give him a "half true" is a joke. They chose to examine his exact words, rather than the message those words actually conveyed. It reminds me of "I did not have sexual relations with that woman..." I'm sure they would have given that one a half truth too.
 
Grim17 said:
You are right... I didn't see that... The fact that they give him a "half true" is a joke. They chose to examine his exact words, rather than the message those words actually conveyed.
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....so they fact-checked his exact words, not what individual people interpreted from those words? And you have a problem with this?
 
Slyfox696 said:
....so they fact-checked his exact words, not what individual people interpreted from those words? And you have a problem with this?
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Yes... Don't you?

Or are you one of those people who swears that Clinton didn't lie about Monica?

A lie is any statement that's meant to convey a false message, which is exactly what Obama did.
 
Grim17 said:
Yes... Don't you?
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No, I prefer not to accuse others of lying because of how I interpreted what they said. That doesn't seem to make any sense to me. If I ask for a clarification to clear up any possible doubts I may have, or to get a clear answer from any equivocation which make exist, and I'm directly told a lie, then I'll accuse someone of lying.

Or are you one of those people who swears that Clinton didn't lie about Monica?
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No, they clearly had sexual relations. If Clinton had said "I did not have sex" and left it at that then, at least from what we know, it would have been the truth.

A lie is any statement that's meant to convey a false message, which is exactly what Obama did.
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I haven't had to change doctors and my insurance hasn't changed since Obamacare passed. Doesn't seem like a lie to me.
 
In proclaiming Cantors statement 'false', Politifact states that 25,200,000 people would in fact lose their insurance (80% of 315m population were insured and 10% of that 80% would lose their insurance).
 
TheDemSocialist said:
I fail to see how this is an opinion at all. Everything in the article is backed up by numbers and studies....
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In conservativebizarroworld: facts are opinions and opinions are facts.
 
jmotivator said:
June 2012 - Poltifact caught giving its Politopinion.

Nailed it, Politifact. Nailed. It.
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If missing entirely means nailed it, then you, too, have nailed it.

Millions of Americans Are Losing Their Health Plans Because of Obamacare | The Weekly Standard
<snip>
The U.S. individual health insurance market currently totals about 19 million people. Because the Obama administration's regulations on grandfathering existing plans were so stringent about 85% of those, 16 million, are not grandfathered and must comply with Obamacare at their next renewal. The rules are very complex. For example, if you had an individual plan in March of 2010 when the law was passed and you only increased the deductible from $1,000 to $1,500 in the years since, your plan has lost its grandfather status and it will no longer be available to you when it would have renewed in 2014.

These 16 million people are now receiving letters from their carriers saying they are losing their current coverage and must re-enroll in order to avoid a break in coverage and comply with the new health law's benefit mandates––the vast majority by January 1. Most of these will be seeing some pretty big rate increases.
<snip>
 
Slyfox696 said:
I haven't had to change doctors and my insurance hasn't changed since Obamacare passed. Doesn't seem like a lie to me.
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Well bully for you... Still doesnt change the fact America was lied to by Obama and the democrats.
 
Grim17 said:
Well bully for you... Still doesnt change the fact America was lied to by Obama and the democrats.
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America is lied to all the time. You act as if that's some great offense. Do you feel Democrats lied about Obamacare? Obviously. Have Republicans lied about Obamacare? Obviously.

If we started measuring the worth of legislation on the lies told to support or reject, then we could never properly evaluate the legislation properly. It's not bad legislation because you feel Democrats lied many times. It's not good legislation because I feel Republicans have lied many times. The quality of the legislation will play out for itself, good or bad. I happen to think, overall, the legislation is good and will provide many positive results. Do I think it's perfect? No, nothing is perfect, especially once it comes into contact with humans. But you work to tweak what's not working, you try to maximize efficiency and off you go.

Obamacare is not perfect, but sure as hell beats what we had before.
 
Slyfox696 said:
America is lied to all the time. You act as if that's some great offense. Do you feel Democrats lied about Obamacare? Obviously. Have Republicans lied about Obamacare? Obviously.

If we started measuring the worth of legislation on the lies told to support or reject, then we could never properly evaluate the legislation properly. It's not bad legislation because you feel Democrats lied many times. It's not good legislation because I feel Republicans have lied many times. The quality of the legislation will play out for itself, good or bad. I happen to think, overall, the legislation is good and will provide many positive results. Do I think it's perfect? No, nothing is perfect, especially once it comes into contact with humans. But you work to tweak what's not working, you try to maximize efficiency and off you go.

Obamacare is not perfect, but sure as hell beats what we had before.
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Let me sum up for you... Obama lied, and as long as your agenda was served, you couldn't care less.
 
Grim17 said:
Let me sum up for you... Obama lied, and as long as your agenda was served, you couldn't care less.
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If this was your best attempt to sum up what I said, allow me some constructive criticism. You're not very good at summaries and you should probably never go into any field which requires you to condense lots of information into a little.
 
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