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Fox Prepares For Health Care Repeal By Misinforming About Health Care Reform ... Agai

Re: Fox Prepares For Health Care Repeal By Misinforming About Health Care Reform ...

Boo Radley said:
Why wouldn't it, as they have better access and spend less money?
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Better access = poorer care. Canada see around 70-75 patients a day, awesome right?

Looks like all the European nations with UHC are financially sound.
 
Re: Fox Prepares For Health Care Repeal By Misinforming About Health Care Reform ...

DontDoIt said:
Better access = poorer care. Canada see around 70-75 patients a day, awesome right?

Looks like all the European nations with UHC are financially sound.
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Not true. It really is not true. For those who don't ahve access, it can't get worse. Having access improves their care . . . a lot. And you won't find a majority in either Canada or Europe wanting to trade with us.

Also, people would still be free to buy more, pay more, have more coverage, and thus, even the very well off would still have all they have now.

And while all countries are struggle (for reasons other than HC btw), they spend less than we do. They get more for less. Better access, and pay less money.
 
Re: Fox Prepares For Health Care Repeal By Misinforming About Health Care Reform ...

Academic studies have repeatedly confirmed Medicaid patients experience poorer health outcomes and higher infant mortality rates. In July a new report from the University of Virginia found even worse performance: surgical patients on Medicaid actually fare worse than the uninsured. They are 13 percent more likely to die than those who have no insurance and 97 percent more likely to die than patients with private insurance.

Those patients who do survive are virtually guaranteed lengthy and expensive time in the hospital. Even after the study authors controlled for “age, gender, income, geographic region, operation, and 30 comorbid conditions,” they found “Medicaid payer status was associated with the longest length of stay and highest total costs.” The stays were 42 percent longer than for those covered by insurance, and the costs were 26 percent higher.

Although much of the focus on Capitol Hill has been on how the new regime affects those on Medicare—coincidentally, a political constituency more likely to vote—the consequences for those on Medicaid are far more serious. The system is already fraught with problems, including delays in access to care that multiply costs and in some sad cases cause perfectly avoidable deaths. Now Obama’s law will jam 16 to 18 million more Americans into it.
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Trapped in the Medicaid Ghetto | Ben Domenech | Opinion Zone | Washington Examiner

ASA: ASA 130th Annual Meeting Abstracts - Primary Payer Status Affects Mortality For Major Surgical Operations
 
Re: Fox Prepares For Health Care Repeal By Misinforming About Health Care Reform ...

Dirty Harry said:
I admit I don't know much about the healthcare law
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half trillion in cuts to medicare, all the while obama simultaneously expands its already teetering enrollment by millions:

Capitol Briefing - Senate votes to keep Medicare cuts

er costs increase:

ER visits, costs in Mass. climb - The Boston Globe

doctors refuse new medicare patients:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/02/business/retirementspecial/02health.html

the doc fix passes, another quarter tril unaccounted for:

Senate passes 1-year doc fix - The Hill's Healthwatch

another quarter T double counted:

Budget Office Rebuts Democratic Claims on Medicare (Update1) - Bloomberg

our already broken backed states are burdened with 200 billion in the form of brand new medicaid enrollees

Governors balk over what healthcare bill will cost states - The Boston Globe
 
Re: Fox Prepares For Health Care Repeal By Misinforming About Health Care Reform ...

Boo Radley said:
Not true. It really is not true. For those who don't ahve access, it can't get worse. Having access improves their care . . . a lot. And you won't find a majority in either Canada or Europe wanting to trade with us.

Also, people would still be free to buy more, pay more, have more coverage, and thus, even the very well off would still have all they have now.

And while all countries are struggle (for reasons other than HC btw), they spend less than we do. They get more for less. Better access, and pay less money.
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I know people who have nothing now would obviously have increased coverage, what about the people who would be paying more and getting less quality care, is that fair to them too??
 
Re: Fox Prepares For Health Care Repeal By Misinforming About Health Care Reform ...

DontDoIt said:
I know people who have nothing now would obviously have increased coverage, what about the people who would be paying more and getting less quality care, is that fair to them too??
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No one would be paying more and getting less. No one. Right now they pay more for less, before reform, and that seems to be the system you espouse to. Pay more and get less.


Remember, before reform, you pay for everyone unisured. You do so ad hock, with no effort at efficiency. With no oversight. No way to even know if you're overpaying for the cost of those you pay for. You cannot pay more than you do before reform, or get less than we do now, . . . again. . . before refomr.
 
Re: Fox Prepares For Health Care Repeal By Misinforming About Health Care Reform ...

Boo Radley said:
No one would be paying more and getting less. No one. Right now they pay more for less, before reform, and that seems to be the system you espouse to. Pay more and get less.


Remember, before reform, you pay for everyone unisured. You do so ad hock, with no effort at efficiency. With no oversight. No way to even know if you're overpaying for the cost of those you pay for. You cannot pay more than you do before reform, or get less than we do now, . . . again. . . before refomr.
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That's already happening. The company I work for raised copays and deductibles while increasing premiums 40%.
 
Re: Fox Prepares For Health Care Repeal By Misinforming About Health Care Reform ...

hazlnut said:
Fox Prepares For Health Care Repeal By Misinforming About Health Care Reform ... Again



They are a 24-hr Michael Moore for the right.

I wonder how many teabaggers would be against repeal if they really understood the bill... not just the Fox spin on it.
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So instead of attempting to argue for the bill you're arguing against a news network? More specifically - you're arguing against some talking heads on a commentary show.

And this is going to change what I DO KNOW to be fact about the bill because . . . ??

The CBO screwed its own self with its initial reports that projected an initial profit from people's premiums - but then a deficit as the payouts annually exceed premiums. . .netting an anual projected loss into the future - into the possible millions.

"Jobs will be lost" - is proven by the fact that countless doctors and others - a completely partisanless issue - have bailed out of their career field completely.

:shrug:

I can go on - but reality is trouncing on the entire stupid thing left to right.
 
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Can we ban comprehensive health insurance yet? I'd like to do something worth while rather than this liberal, freedom grabbing b.s.
 
Re: Fox Prepares For Health Care Repeal By Misinforming About Health Care Reform ...

Boo Radley said:
No one would be paying more and getting less. No one. Right now they pay more for less, before reform, and that seems to be the system you espouse to. Pay more and get less.


Remember, before reform, you pay for everyone unisured. You do so ad hock, with no effort at efficiency. With no oversight. No way to even know if you're overpaying for the cost of those you pay for. You cannot pay more than you do before reform, or get less than we do now, . . . again. . . before refomr.
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Oh really? Then how are these 35 million people going to be granted health care? Since a number of them will contribute very little.
 
Re: Fox Prepares For Health Care Repeal By Misinforming About Health Care Reform ...

DontDoIt said:
Oh really? Then how are these 35 million people going to be granted health care? Since a number of them will contribute very little.
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(with present reform)A good number, most, will contribute. Will buy their own insurance, and pay their own premiums. And they will get more. The cost that will have moves from being inflicted on you at the hospital, being added to your bill and your insurance premium to being picked up either by cutting other programs, or some tax. The Bill has not adequately handled this yet. Dueling numbers. But, it should end hospitals adding to their costs at the rate they have been. And it should eleiminate the need for insurance companies to raise rates (though they are showing a desire to fleece us while they can).

Remember, you pay for everyone before reform, and in the most expensive and ineffective manner possible. With a third party payer, something not on the table, most these problems would ease. And you could still buy more if you want more.
 
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"or some tax"

LOL!

obamacare raises taxes THREE QUARTERS OF A TRILLION DOLLARS

Director's Blog » Blog Archive » Additional Information on CBO’s Preliminary Analysis of H.R. 2

meanwhile, doctors are refusing to treat medicare patients

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/02/business/retirementspecial/02health.html

let alone medicaid, the ghetto of health care

Governors balk over what healthcare bill will cost states - The Boston Globe

the university of virginia found that having NO INSURANCE left patients better off than those with medicaid

ASA: ASA 130th Annual Meeting Abstracts - Primary Payer Status Affects Mortality For Major Surgical Operations

obama doesn't know what he's talking about

but at least he can spell

and he's not ridiculously RUNDANT

LOL!
 
Re: Fox Prepares For Health Care Repeal By Misinforming About Health Care Reform ...

ksu_aviator said:
Can we ban comprehensive health insurance yet? I'd like to do something worth while rather than this liberal, freedom grabbing b.s.
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Yeah - I don't understand why the government believes it's place is to provide everyone equal healthcare - but not an equal eduation (seeing as how a national cirriculum has been banned by our own legislature)
 
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