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The Glenn Beck Boycott Gaining Traction - FOX News Losing Money

misterman said:
Now this is funny.

Death panels!
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There's only "end of life"

Section 1192
(b)1(B) Page 877


However, let's watch and see how/if it gets amended over the years. It might not be for quite a while.
 
Ockham said:
There's only "end of life"

Section 1192
(b)1(B) Page 877


However, let's watch and see how/if it gets amended over the years. It might not be for quite a while.
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As long as we accurate in what it actually says and does. If we are, then reasonable people would know this was a positive effort and not the kill granny silly lie some portrayed it as.
 
Ockham said:
It's come down to splitting hairs. Enforcement is going to be done by the IRS. There are close to 100 changes or notations to the IRS Tax Codes identified in HR3962. The actual number of IRS agents needed to take on this added responsibility? Unknown.
Technically, the bill does not identify the need for nor the authorization of additional IRS agents and it may be that the IRS themselves will not police Health Care but, one thing is sure... the government will have to hire many thousands of people to support such enforcement. That is done outside of the language of the bill. Specifically, these sections of HR3962 are of interest where fines, enforecement and "civilian penalty" are identified.

Section 307. Health Insuracne Exchange Trust Fund
(c)1(A-C) Page 196

Section 806, Regulations
(b)2(11)A-F

Title V, Sec 501
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Hey great!

Except HR 3692 is the WRONG BILL.

It's HR 3590, as amended by HR 4872, the reconciliation bill.
 
Ockham said:
There's only "end of life"

Section 1192
(b)1(B) Page 877
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Ignoring for a moment that you have the wrong, bill, yes, there is a provision for doctors to get reimbursement for discussing end of life issues with a patient to make plans. That's it. No government involvement whatsoever.

Do you oppose people talking to their doctors about that? Do you have a living will? Do you fear it will be used to kill you prematurely? You should amend it then, or tear it up.

There is no Death Panel. Period.

However, let's watch and see how/if it gets amended over the years. It might not be for quite a while.
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Any law can be amended. Saying that they might pass a death panel some time in the future is easy. I could say they might pass a law outlawing ice cream. But they haven't yet.
 
misterman said:
Ignoring for a moment that you have the wrong, bill, yes, there is a provision for doctors to get reimbursement for discussing end of life issues with a patient to make plans. That's it. No government involvement whatsoever.

Do you oppose people talking to their doctors about that? Do you have a living will? Do you fear it will be used to kill you prematurely? You should amend it then, or tear it up.

There is no Death Panel. Period.



Any law can be amended. Saying that they might pass a death panel some time in the future is easy. I could say they might pass a law outlawing ice cream. But they haven't yet.
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Again, accuracy is key. Using end of life counseling to say there is a death panel or killing granny is to lie, bold face.
 
BWG said:
Why would I need an argumentum ad populum, when I'm right. There is nothing in this bill that "creates 16000+ IRS agents".


Not to worry, that's pretty much what I expected from you - nothing.








Oh, I see now - actually this isn't the first time, but that's another story - you like to crawfish when your position is unsupportable, because you're not enough of a man to acknowledge that you can't.

The objection to your statement was not about money. The objection was your statement - and I quote - "a bill that creates 16000+ IRS agents".

It's not there. Never has been. You got caught regurgitating Boehner garbage and it bit you in the ass.



adios
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Stop being an ass, funding for the IRS was increased over 10 billion dollars in the Healthcare bill, for what? Keep that head of yours buried in the sand which is typical of all supporters of Obama.
 
Conservative said:
What challenge? By the way we have anti aircraft guns in TX.

1.47 trillion Deficit in fiscal year 2009
1.60 trillion Projected deficit fiscal year 2010
1.30 trillion Projected deficit fiscal year 2011

4.37 trillion in his first three years. Bush 8 year deficits 4.7 trillion with 9/11 consuming about a trillion of that according to GAO.
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mmm but don't touch that defense budget. Wouldn't want to reallocate $515 Billion dollars a year
 
1Citation Needed
 
Good point then! Something needs to be done about the amount of revenues that go to the military, regardless of who's in power!:2razz:
 
Z3n said:
Good point then! Something needs to be done about the amount of revenues that go to the military, regardless of who's in power!:2razz:
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I prefer that money be spent on the purpose of our central govt, which is PROVIDE for the common defense than to waste money on all that social spending that costs more than intended, does less than intended, never solves a problem and never goes away.

It is rather scary how poorly educated far too many are on the Constitution, the Budget, and the role of our govt. Just goes to show how poor our education system is today.
 
Boo Radley said:
Again, accuracy is key. Using end of life counseling to say there is a death panel or killing granny is to lie, bold face.
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The entire healthcare bill is a lie, it does nothing to lower the costs of healthcare or improve the quality of healthcare. It does lower payments that the consumer will pay but that just affects profit margins of companies and will affect long term R&D. Why you have so much faith in the Federal Govt. is beyond me.

Today we have a 3.8 TRILLION DOLLAR Federal Govt. that for some reason you believe can manage healthcare and lower costs. This Federal Govt. cannot even get its own business in order. By Obama's own budgets the CBO predicts that the National Debt will be 90% of GDP by the year 2020. Interest on that debt will be more than the entire Defense budget and if we have the inflation as predicted interest rates will be driven up and that will increase the debt service on the debt.

Better think about what you are supporting here.
 
Conservative said:
The entire healthcare bill is a lie, it does nothing to lower the costs of healthcare or improve the quality of healthcare. It does lower payments that the consumer will pay but that just affects profit margins of companies and will affect long term R&D. Why you have so much faith in the Federal Govt. is beyond me.

Today we have a 3.8 TRILLION DOLLAR Federal Govt. that for some reason you believe can manage healthcare and lower costs. This Federal Govt. cannot even get its own business in order. By Obama's own budgets the CBO predicts that the National Debt will be 90% of GDP by the year 2020. Interest on that debt will be more than the entire Defense budget and if we have the inflation as predicted interest rates will be driven up and that will increase the debt service on the debt.

Better think about what you are supporting here.
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I have no objection to you speaking to the actual flaws in the bill. Many who support its passage admit flaws. I only object to opposing it through misinformation.

And btw, we're in debt without reform, growing all the time. The trick will be to address the debt while reforming health care. This hasn't been done yet, but it will never be done if we do nothing. And not passing this bill would lead to doing nothing.
 
Boo Radley said:
I have no objection to you speaking to the actual flaws in the bill. Many who support its passage admit flaws. I only object to opposing it through misinformation.

And btw, we're in debt without reform, growing all the time. The trick will be to address the debt while reforming health care. This hasn't been done yet, but it will never be done if we do nothing. And not passing this bill would lead to doing nothing.
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There will be no trickle increase in debt with this bill. Keep ignoring the history of this govt. and tell me why that history will lead to a different result now. Example when Medicare was implemented the cost was around 3 billion dollars, the independent CBO claimed that the cost in 25 years would be 12 billion dollars. What was the actual cost 25 years after implementation and what is the cost today?

There is no misinformation being offered here except by supporters who claim this is deficit neutral. Until you address actual costs healthcare will continue to rise.
 
Conservative said:
Example when Medicare was implemented the cost was around 3 billion dollars, the independent CBO claimed that the cost in 25 years would be 12 billion dollars. What was the actual cost 25 years after implementation and what is the cost today?
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Citation please.
 
Conservative said:
There will be no trickle increase in debt with this bill. Keep ignoring the history of this govt. and tell me why that history will lead to a different result now. Example when Medicare was implemented the cost was around 3 billion dollars, the independent CBO claimed that the cost in 25 years would be 12 billion dollars. What was the actual cost 25 years after implementation and what is the cost today?

There is no misinformation being offered here except by supporters who claim this is deficit neutral. Until you address actual costs healthcare will continue to rise.
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I'm not seeking a different result. Like I keep pointing out, few would give their medicare back. It works, no matter how imperfectly.

But, we can always do better. All everyone has to do is stop the partisan fear mongering and start working for a solution. Much of the fight has led to the problems being worse than they have to be. So, have your leaders put aside the tactics of obstruction and misinformation and start trying to make it better.
 
Boo Radley said:
I'm not seeking a different result. Like I keep pointing out, few would give their medicare back. It works, no matter how imperfectly.

But, we can always do better. All everyone has to do is stop the partisan fear mongering and start working for a solution. Much of the fight has led to the problems being worse than they have to be. So, have your leaders put aside the tactics of obstruction and misinformation and start trying to make it better.
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Apparently individuals getting some benefits offset the overall costs of a bankrupt program in your world. Doesn't matter to you, does it?

The misinformation is coming from supporters not detractors and the detractors have history on their side.

http://reason.com/archives/1993/01/01/the-medicare-monster
 
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Conservative said:
Apparently individuals getting some benefits offset the overall costs of a bankrupt program in your world. Doesn't matter to you, does it?

The misinformation is coming from supporters not detractors and the detractors have history on their side.
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Well, to some degree. But the program does not have to be bankrupt. We can run it better.

And don't be silly. As detractors have constantly thrown out things like death panels, socialism and the sky is falling, they, detractors, hold a lion's share of the misinformation.
 
Boo Radley said:
Well, to some degree. But the program does not have to be bankrupt. We can run it better.

And don't be silly. As detractors have constantly thrown out things like death panels, socialism and the sky is falling, they, detractors, hold a lion's share of the misinformation.
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We could run the current program better instead of creating this POS. Address the costs and those truly uninsured because of financial conditions. Govt. never does that and never will. Too much power to be lost by doing what makes sense.
 
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