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The Glenn Beck Boycott Gaining Traction - FOX News Losing Money

Boo Radley said:
Again, link a credible source.

Medicine

* There were more than 2,600 active patient care physicians in Hawaii in 2000. With 217 physicians per 100,000 population, Hawaii was higher than the national ratio of 198 physicians per 100,000. Hawaii ranked 10th among states in physicians per capita.
* Hawaii had 79 active primary care physicians per 100,000 population in 2000, higher than the rate of 69 per 100,000 for the entire country.
* Medical schools in Hawaii graduated 53 new physicians in 2000. Hawaii graduated fewer new physicians per 100,000 population (4.4) than did the entire United States (6.4) and ranked 36th among the 46 states with medical schools in medical school graduates per capita.
* There were 56 physician assistants practicing in Hawaii in 2000. This was equal to 4.6 physician assistants per 100,000 population, significantly less than the national rate of 14.4.


National Center for Health Workforce Analysis, Highlights from the Health Workforce Profile
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Now isn't that wonderful, what year was that report? Why is it that children were dropped from the roles of the insured? Why are politicians in Hawaii complaining about costs? If this is such a wonderful program that was implemented by the Hawaii govt. that other states haven't adopted it and implemented it on the mainland. Could it be that the MA program is more the norm?

I have seen no evidence that the Federal Govt. can operate a Hawaii program on a national scale.
 
Conservative said:
So adding another 30 million helps the system and makes it cheaper? LOL, that is truly liberal logic.
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So one more time:

Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
. a Doctor shortage, insured using the ER's and those numbers climbing, .
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Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
So you want to continue with the same system that these things started happening under?
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Conservative said:
Now isn't that wonderful, what year was that report? Why is it that children were dropped from the roles of the insured? Why are politicians in Hawaii complaining about costs? If this is such a wonderful program that was implemented by the Hawaii govt. that other states haven't adopted it and implemented it on the mainland. Could it be that the MA program is more the norm?

I have seen no evidence that the Federal Govt. can operate a Hawaii program on a national scale.
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Like I said, try a better source:

State health officials argued that most of the children enrolled in the universal child care program previously had private health insurance, indicating that it was helping those who didn't need it.

FOXNews.com - Hawaii ending universal child health care - Health News | Current Health News | Medical News

Remember, budgets have more than one cause for the problems they face.
 
Boo Radley said:
Like I said, try a better source:

State health officials argued that most of the children enrolled in the universal child care program previously had private health insurance, indicating that it was helping those who didn't need it.

FOXNews.com - Hawaii ending universal child health care - Health News | Current Health News | Medical News

Remember, budgets have more than one cause for the problems they face.
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Gee, Imagine that, helping people that don't need it? Sounds a lot like insured using the ER's. Human nature takes over and you ignore it.
 
Conservative said:
Gee, Imagine that, helping people that don't need it? Sounds a lot like insured using the ER's. Human nature takes over and you ignore it.
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No, not at all. No one is paying for those who don't need it. Only requiring that all get their own insurance. Only those who need help and can prove they meet a standard get help. Again, address facts and not delusions. ;)
 
Boo Radley said:
No, not at all. No one is paying for those who don't need it. Only requiring that all get their own insurance. Only those who need help and can prove they meet a standard get help. Again, address facts and not delusions. ;)
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The only true facts are the results in MA, Hawaii, and the doctor shortage along with ER usaga. All others is speculation on your part. You have no evidence that this will lower costs as it has not done that in MA. Hawaii is another story, a very small state thus a small model. Interesting that small hospitals on the other islands are losing money and broke.
 
Conservative said:
The only true facts are the results in MA, Hawaii, and the doctor shortage along with ER usaga. All others is speculation on your part. You have no evidence that this will lower costs as it has not done that in MA. Hawaii is another story, a very small state thus a small model. Interesting that small hospitals on the other islands are losing money and broke.
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Again, Hawaii doesn't have a doctor shortage. The Bill attempts to address the shortage and rewards quality work and cost saving efforts.

As for other islands, link a credible source and I will look at it.
 
Conservative said:
The ER usage climbing is in MA!! What is going to happen nationwide when 30 million are added to a country with a doctor shortage?
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Man if I had a professional dodge ball team I'd want you on the team!
 
Boo Radley said:
Again, Hawaii doesn't have a doctor shortage. The Bill attempts to address the shortage and rewards quality work and cost saving efforts.

As for other islands, link a credible source and I will look at it.
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Hawaii has a population of about 1.3 and most are located on the island of Oahu. That is the size of the city of Houston. there are no cost savings in Hawaii or the state wouldn't be facing a shortfall but as I pointed out a shortfall doesn't matter because the bill never comes due in a liberal world.
 
Conservative said:
Hawaii has a population of about 1.3 and most are located on the island of Oahu. That is the size of the city of Houston. there are no cost savings in Hawaii or the state wouldn't be facing a shortfall but as I pointed out a shortfall doesn't matter because the bill never comes due in a liberal world.
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Let me point this out again:

But perhaps the most intriguing lesson from Hawaii has to do with costs. This is a state where regular milk sells for $8 a gallon, gasoline costs $3.60 a gallon and the median price of a home in 2008 was $624,000 — the second-highest in the nation. Despite this, Hawaii’s health insurance premiums are nearly tied with North Dakota for the lowest in the country, and Medicare costs per beneficiary are the nation’s lowest.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/17/health/policy/17hawaii.html

So, budget shortfalls may well be related to other problems
 
Boo Radley said:
Let me point this out again:

But perhaps the most intriguing lesson from Hawaii has to do with costs. This is a state where regular milk sells for $8 a gallon, gasoline costs $3.60 a gallon and the median price of a home in 2008 was $624,000 — the second-highest in the nation. Despite this, Hawaii’s health insurance premiums are nearly tied with North Dakota for the lowest in the country, and Medicare costs per beneficiary are the nation’s lowest.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/17/health/policy/17hawaii.html

So, budget shortfalls may well be related to other problems
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So let me see if I have this correct, what one pays for health insurance is the true cost of health insurance? Where did you go to school?
 
Boo Radley.

I was a little torn between the mandatory part of healthcare I just couldnt agree with it. But with your precise usage of the facts I may still be conflicted but I am swayed more to agree with you. I dont like government force at all but if the status quo remains as such I have to be for it. You have explained with clarity the necessity of such a program when government and its various functions remain the same. You now have people who DONT pay required to pay and if they dont pay into the system they still have to pay a sum of money which may be less but it is something from nothing. Thus decreasing the burden. I cant disagree with that with government as it stands so without change you truly have a valid point that changes in healthcare should be made. Because the functions of government is paid by the people and people in poor health will take a free lunch anyday to survive.

Also another point experience in the day to day functions of healthcare to me trumps the math genius who sits at their desk and generate facts from surveys. You have witnessed facts first hand and worked with them and made your own determination and that is something and someone I can listen to
 
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thoughtprocess said:
Boo Radley.

I was a little torn between the mandatory part of healthcare I just couldnt agree with it. But with your precise usage of the facts I may still be conflicted but I am swayed more to agree with you. I dont like government force at all but if the status quo remains as such I have to be for it. You have explained with clarity the necessity of such a program when government and its various functions remain the same. You now have people who DONT pay required to pay and if they dont pay into the system they still have to pay a sum of money which may be less but it is something from nothing. Thus decreasing the burden. I cant disagree with that with government as it stands so without change you truly have a valid point that changes in healthcare should be made. Because the functions of government is paid by the people and people in poor health will take a free lunch anyday to survive.

Also another point experience in the day to day functions of healthcare to me trumps the math genius who sits at their desk and generate facts from surveys. You have witnessed facts first hand and worked with them and made your own determination and that is something and someone I can listen to
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thought, as has been pointed out we have a doctor shortage in this country today and we have the insured using the ER's instead of making appointments with their doctor. Nothing in this bill reforms the healthcare system by creating more doctors or hospitals, and nothing in this bill attacks the true costs of healthcare. The fine levied for not purchasing insurance isn't large enough to force the purchase nor does the bill address human behavior.

Liberals all along have overstated the uninsured portion of the population who do not have the means to purchase insurance and have used that over inflated number to create another entitlement program. Most in this country including most who voted for this legislation don't even know what is in it.

We are headed towards bankruptcy and nothing in this bill prevents that from slowing down the march towards bankruptcy and in fact makes it closer to reality.
 
ConservaBill said:
Then WHY THE HELL are you guys so insistent that GB is such an evil person??![/B]
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A good question!

ConservaBill said:
Then WHY THE HELL do you bash HIM instead of discussing the issues he brings up..??![/B]
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Another good question worthy of intelligent discussion

ConservaBill said:
Then WHY THE HELL to you denigrate TEA folks.. why do you attack rather than debate???![/B]
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Yet one more good question worthy of intelligent discussion



ConservaBill said:
BECAUSE you do NOT want to debate your Marxist-Progressive position or it's roots in Communism and it's murderous necessities![/B]
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...ah, an absurdly ridiculous comment, which pretty much answers much of the above as to why you don't get intelligent discussion on your questions. "Intelligent discussion" is a compound phrase with one aspect dependant on the other. You do your part and the rest will follow.
 
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Conservative said:
thought, as has been pointed out we have a doctor shortage in this country today and we have the insured using the ER's instead of making appointments with their doctor. Nothing in this bill reforms the healthcare system by creating more doctors or hospitals, and nothing in this bill attacks the true costs of healthcare. The fine levied for not purchasing insurance isn't large enough to force the purchase nor does the bill address human behavior.

Liberals all along have overstated the uninsured portion of the population who do not have the means to purchase insurance and have used that over inflated number to create another entitlement program. Most in this country including most who voted for this legislation don't even know what is in it.

We are headed towards bankruptcy and nothing in this bill prevents that from slowing down the march towards bankruptcy and in fact makes it closer to reality.
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Lol ok conservative you have pulled me back in with a honest arguement not filled with melodrama. There is a doctor shortage because what once was a great paying job has become a good paying job with more work involved. If there is a job field that pays well and only requires you to do the job you have studied for the positions will be filled by bright minds.

As far as the penalties they are more than what is on the books now you go from free to a couple hundred dollars that is mandatory putting more money in the pot that would not have been there otherwise. That will indeed slow the cost to all of Americans. This bill I dont agree with entirely because it definetly is a money generator there is no mistaking that fact. It wont bankrupt government it will strengthen its bank account very quickly. But as it is doing so there has to be change in function. Im not saying to you that tax cuts are wrong and they dont work. They do work but they cannot work with the current form of our government with their so many agencies and functions. Its impossible period. So changes have to be made the sad fact is we as Americans have to fit the bill because technically we are government and we allowed this to happend this crisis. Now its either make changes in the structure of government and how they do business is a necessity. We have learned in passed years votes were just really meaningless in the fight to sustain government as it is or even make it smaller. Through all administrations government just gets bigger and bigger doing the same job and functions. During this administration government with healthcare also retains them a bigger role for government but the functions of government is drastically changing. Those functions seek to lessen welfare not grant it more entitlements. This bill actually starts to make me think Obama is a quiet republican. He is making people who would not normally pay even though they use it pay for it. Thus it isnt free money. Some may pay less but mandatory means your going to pay. So it to me it is sort of attempting to pluck people out of a COMPLETE welfare state. Where everything is free. Now leaving the system alone has proven only to grow it because it is law. This bill actually even attempts to reform the welfare policies. People who can almost pay but cant afford it now will be subject to pay. This bill takes away the middle ground in welfare where just anybody can get it. So I dont agree with the entirety of this bill but it certainly was thought out to be a not so dumb idea.
 
thoughtprocess;1058695794]Lol ok conservative you have pulled me back in with a honest arguement not filled with melodrama. There is a doctor shortage because what once was a great paying job has become a good paying job with more work involved. If there is a job field that pays well and only requires you to do the job you have studied for the positions will be filled by bright minds.
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Bright minds go into professions that have incentive opportunities and this bill cuts Medicare Payments, shifts costs to the states and the states will be forced to cut Medicaid Payments. Some doctors and hospitals are not taking Medicare patients now. It is going to get worse and this bill does nothing to change that thus is doomed from the beginning.

As far as the penalties they are more than what is on the books now you go from free to a couple hundred dollars that is mandatory putting more money in the pot that would not have been there otherwise. That will indeed slow the cost to all of Americans. This bill I dont agree with entirely because it definetly is a money generator there is no mistaking that fact. It wont bankrupt government it will strengthen its bank account very quickly.
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To claim that it is a money maker ignores history. All govt. programs cost more than intended, do less than intended, and never solves a social problem. When you spend more than you take in you either borrow the money or the govt. will print it. Either way it leads to bankruptcy as according to Obama Administration our debt will be 90% of our GDP in the next 10 years with his proposals and that is even understating the cost of the healthcare bill.

But as it is doing so there has to be change in function. Im not saying to you that tax cuts are wrong and they dont work. They do work but they cannot work with the current form of our government with their so many agencies and functions. Its impossible period.
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What far too many people do is buy the rhetoric from the media and their politicians whose sole goal is to keep their jobs vs. doing their jobs. tax cuts do indeed stimulate economic growth, create taxpaying jobs, and grow govt. revenue. Those would be tax RATE cuts not rebates. The Obama Admin is touting their tax cuts but all they did was cut withholding and the taxpayer is paying the money back now as their rates stayed the same so their withholding was less.

So changes have to be made the sad fact is we as Americans have to fit the bill because technically we are government and we allowed this to happend this crisis. Now its either make changes in the structure of government and how they do business is a necessity. We have learned in passed years votes were just really meaningless in the fight to sustain government as it is or even make it smaller. Through all administrations government just gets bigger and bigger doing the same job and functions.
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Never in the history of this country has govt. grown to this level and we now have a 3.8 TRILLION dollar govt. That govt. creates a 1.6 trillion dollar deficit. Obama will add more to the deficit in 2 years than Reagan did in 8 and will add more in 4 years than Bush did in 8. That is hardly responsible govt.

During this administration government with healthcare also retains them a bigger role for government but the functions of government is drastically changing. Those functions seek to lessen welfare not grant it more entitlements. This bill actually starts to make me think Obama is a quiet republican. He is making people who would not normally pay even though they use it pay for it. Thus it isnt free money. Some may pay less but mandatory means your going to pay. So it to me it is sort of attempting to pluck people out of a COMPLETE welfare state. Where everything is free. Now leaving the system alone has proven only to grow it because it is law. This bill actually even attempts to reform the welfare policies. People who can almost pay but cant afford it now will be subject to pay. This bill takes away the middle ground in welfare where just anybody can get it. So I dont agree with the entirety of this bill but it certainly was thought out to be a not so dumb idea.
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Not sure where you come up with that assessment, govt is getting bigger, has to police the healthcare bill, and thus is giving more money to people who aren't paying any taxes. Most of the uninsured are either eligible for existing programs or CHOOSE not to purchase it. The penalty for not purchasing insurance is 2.5% of salary so someone who makes 50,000 a year would pay a 1250 penalty. There is no healthcare bill that costs 1250 a year thus the individual will pay the fine and not purchase healthcare. That defeats the purpose of the bill, creates another bureaucracy that has to be funded and does nothing to lower healthcare costs.

this bill does nothing to reform welfare but instead creates greater govt. control and is one step closer to single payer which is the liberal goal and would be a nightmare in a country this size with 50 independent states.

This bill was passed without debate or recognition as to the true costs of healthcare thus nothing in it lowers actual healthcare costs, improve quality, and creates more doctors.
 
Conservative said:
Bright minds go into professions that have incentive opportunities and this bill cuts Medicare Payments, shifts costs to the states and the states will be forced to cut Medicaid Payments. Some doctors and hospitals are not taking Medicare patients now. It is going to get worse and this bill does nothing to change that thus is doomed from the beginning.



To claim that it is a money maker ignores history. All govt. programs cost more than intended, do less than intended, and never solves a social problem. When you spend more than you take in you either borrow the money or the govt. will print it. Either way it leads to bankruptcy as according to Obama Administration our debt will be 90% of our GDP in the next 10 years with his proposals and that is even understating the cost of the healthcare bill.



What far too many people do is buy the rhetoric from the media and their politicians whose sole goal is to keep their jobs vs. doing their jobs. tax cuts do indeed stimulate economic growth, create taxpaying jobs, and grow govt. revenue. Those would be tax RATE cuts not rebates. The Obama Admin is touting their tax cuts but all they did was cut withholding and the taxpayer is paying the money back now as their rates stayed the same so their withholding was less.



Never in the history of this country has govt. grown to this level and we now have a 3.8 TRILLION dollar govt. That govt. creates a 1.6 trillion dollar deficit. Obama will add more to the deficit in 2 years than Reagan did in 8 and will add more in 4 years than Bush did in 8. That is hardly responsible govt.



Not sure where you come up with that assessment, govt is getting bigger, has to police the healthcare bill, and thus is giving more money to people who aren't paying any taxes. Most of the uninsured are either eligible for existing programs or CHOOSE not to purchase it. The penalty for not purchasing insurance is 2.5% of salary so someone who makes 50,000 a year would pay a 1250 penalty. There is no healthcare bill that costs 1250 a year thus the individual will pay the fine and not purchase healthcare. That defeats the purpose of the bill, creates another bureaucracy that has to be funded and does nothing to lower healthcare costs.

this bill does nothing to reform welfare but instead creates greater govt. control and is one step closer to single payer which is the liberal goal and would be a nightmare in a country this size with 50 independent states.

This bill was passed without debate or recognition as to the true costs of healthcare thus nothing in it lowers actual healthcare costs, improve quality, and creates more doctors.
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There is never any legislation that solves the problem of healthcare either. This healthcare bill is an attempt by this administration to solve the problem it is indeed a difference in opinion but it validated the point that we need to do something on the issue. All the issues government thinks over and create laws to better never even comes close to changing anything it only becomes acts of appeasement so to prolong the issue. In all the years and throughtout multiple presidencies not one of our issues have been solidified by law. Not one issue has been made whole. I cannot think of one.

Also government growing is not an Obama trait. It is the trait of government and its politicians to grow government. In my lifetime no president has made a decision that didnt grow government. Government growing is what the norm is now so I dont fault Obama for that I fault the laws on the books. The rules are constantly being changed and no issue is ever finalized to reach all for the success of America. What I see with the healthcare bill it is a way for government to accumulate money. So technically it is a tax but it wont bankrupt America but it will hinder its success in the fight for less government control. Doing nothing will bankrupt us with 100% certainty. Like i said I dont agree with the bill but I do agree with the concept. So I am forced like you when you are voting to choose the best out of the worst. Yes government can be better in serving the people but we must ask ourselves with all honesty what are we voting for. We vote for candidates with the R or the D who say they stand for what we stand saying they will help the economy, immigration, abortion, etc but nothing gets done because they just try ideas of the past. I believe we as American people should generate those ideas because we are living every situation and give it to honest people and say here Im voting for this idea because are leaders have yet to prove with anything even terrorism throughtout history that they have the solutions. Healthcare reform was called for by the people years ago because we knew it was a problem but it was put on the backburner and now on the vurge of mayhem does any real effort is attempted. We are nearing bankruptcy and I just learned that China just might be given American land. So decades later after the people called for reform does it happen to save us from depression. The only reason the healthcare bill was passed is because something had to happen. So because our politicians only get along to screw us over did this bill fall short.

Conservative we are not that far from each other on the issues and I do have liberal leanings. I believe one day we can live in an almost tax free state . But until we get off our butts and find those right people to serve the constitution and America we have to shovel some of the poop while attempting to change the system back to the constitution and its base functions . I found that way and people who look toward greatness and success for all not a complete welfare state with total government control. Not the tea party, republicans, libertarians. I found the party I was looking for and I hope that if you cannot your party can change back into the protectors of America not just the status quo which is documented by the history of past administrations to be the case in todays government.
 
thoughtprocess said:
There is never any legislation that solves the problem of healthcare either. This healthcare bill is an attempt by this administration to solve the problem it is indeed a difference in opinion but it validated the point that we need to do something on the issue. All the issues government thinks over and create laws to better never even comes close to changing anything it only becomes acts of appeasement so to prolong the issue. In all the years and throughtout multiple presidencies not one of our issues have been solidified by law. Not one issue has been made whole. I cannot think of one.

Also government growing is not an Obama trait. It is the trait of government and its politicians to grow government. In my lifetime no president has made a decision that didnt grow government. Government growing is what the norm is now so I dont fault Obama for that I fault the laws on the books. The rules are constantly being changed and no issue is ever finalized to reach all for the success of America. What I see with the healthcare bill it is a way for government to accumulate money. So technically it is a tax but it wont bankrupt America but it will hinder its success in the fight for less government control. Doing nothing will bankrupt us with 100% certainty. Like i said I dont agree with the bill but I do agree with the concept. So I am forced like you when you are voting to choose the best out of the worst. Yes government can be better in serving the people but we must ask ourselves with all honesty what are we voting for. We vote for candidates with the R or the D who say they stand for what we stand saying they will help the economy, immigration, abortion, etc but nothing gets done because they just try ideas of the past. I believe we as American people should generate those ideas because we are living every situation and give it to honest people and say here Im voting for this idea because are leaders have yet to prove with anything even terrorism throughtout history that they have the solutions. Healthcare reform was called for by the people years ago because we knew it was a problem but it was put on the backburner and now on the vurge of mayhem does any real effort is attempted. We are nearing bankruptcy and I just learned that China just might be given American land. So decades later after the people called for reform does it happen to save us from depression. The only reason the healthcare bill was passed is because something had to happen. So because our politicians only get along to screw us over did this bill fall short.

Conservative we are not that far from each other on the issues and I do have liberal leanings. I believe one day we can live in an almost tax free state . But until we get off our butts and find those right people to serve the constitution and America we have to shovel some of the poop while attempting to change the system back to the constitution and its base functions . I found that way and people who look toward greatness and success for all not a complete welfare state with total government control. Not the tea party, republicans, libertarians. I found the party I was looking for and I hope that if you cannot your party can change back into the protectors of America not just the status quo which is documented by the history of past administrations to be the case in todays government.
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The problem is this Administration is spending trillions and the bill doesn't do what it is supposed to do. That to me makes no sense and anyone that says it is a good first step cannot comprehend how much a trillion dollars is.

No one will ever reform healthcare until all costs of healthcare are identified and addressed. This bill doesn't do that.

I am not a Republican and grew up as a Democrat but was always conservative. The Democrat Party left me when it became the welfare party thus I have voted Republican since 1980. I will continue to vote Republican as long as this Democrat Party operates the way it does.

GW Bush got a bad rap but he stuck to his principles and conviction thus kept this country safe. he did some things I didn't like including the TARP bailout and promoted immigration reform that did nothing to actually reform immigration. Other than that I understand what he did and why he did it. I voted wisely in 2000 and 2004. I also voted wisely in 2008. This Empty suit, Community Organizer in the WH is unqualified to be President
 
Conservative said:
The problem is this Administration is spending trillions and the bill doesn't do what it is supposed to do. That to me makes no sense and anyone that says it is a good first step cannot comprehend how much a trillion dollars is.

No one will ever reform healthcare until all costs of healthcare are identified and addressed. This bill doesn't do that.

I am not a Republican and grew up as a Democrat but was always conservative. The Democrat Party left me when it became the welfare party thus I have voted Republican since 1980. I will continue to vote Republican as long as this Democrat Party operates the way it does.

GW Bush got a bad rap but he stuck to his principles and conviction thus kept this country safe. he did some things I didn't like including the TARP bailout and promoted immigration reform that did nothing to actually reform immigration. Other than that I understand what he did and why he did it. I voted wisely in 2000 and 2004. I also voted wisely in 2008. This Empty suit, Community Organizer in the WH is unqualified to be President
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I agree the healthcare bill doesnt do whats it is suppose to but Republicans and democrats with the attitude that each other are friends and colleagues from word only and become enemies when governing. Therefore they cant ever function properly. Therefore just like normal you have a half arse bills in any social category.

Welfare there is now a honest need for it. Now before you get up for that statement let me explain my meaning. I will use Detroit as a reference point. The system as it stands throughout administrations have caused the growth of the welfare system. The healthcare bill is not welfare. Welfare is its own beast. Now government has allocated more responsibility for itself with crafty legislation. They now go from just protecting rights to creating a NEED for government. If welfare was to just be stripped away at this point in our history that need doesnt go away. Now welfare is connected to alot of issues and one being education. If we strip welfare completely you now have millions of people with that need and no way to recieve it because government always messes with education and who should get more and what not. So if that is to happen you will have the Detroit affect all over the country which will destroy America. I dont agree entirely with the welfare programs but in the current climate I must for the protection of honest American citizens. I believe that welfare has developed into government neccessity because there was never a clear plan through education as well as law enforcement so to one day eliminate it.. There are only plans to grow it or just eliminate it in one stroke. Both plans are plans of doom. I dont believe in that doom because with your voice and mine we now have opportunity to actually see the problem isolate it and get rid of it and make changes in a reasonable fashion. But if two average informed citizens cant talk it out you can hardly expect government to do the same.

Now President Obama is not a bad president in terms of presidents. He hasnt done anything radical he is just merely following the blueprint of a politician. The problem arises when he attempts to alter the blueprint and politicians dont want to see that change.

To rid ourselves of the welfare state will indeed decrease taxes but they will be raised 10 fold under the guise of protection so we must really consider how to address the issue with authority and intelligence. Welfare has become something that just cant go away in one moment government has made sure of that because it affects all races in America. I honestly believe that welfare should only be provided to children and the disabled. And when taxes are lowered we should move foward again and take the baby steps to eliminate it in conjunction with poor education values. Because when you learn you find value in yourself and others but when you dont you find value anywhere you get it or take it. Education trumps healthcare and welfare to me.
 
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When you make a statement like this you destroy your credibility by listening to what he says and ignoring what he is doing.

Now President Obama is not a bad president in terms of presidents. He hasnt done anything radical he is just merely following the blueprint of a politician. The problem arises when he attempts to alter the blueprint and politicians dont want to see that change.
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His radical expansion of govt. says it all about just how bad he is. He is making Jimmy Carter look good.
 
Conservative said:
When you make a statement like this you destroy your credibility by listening to what he says and ignoring what he is doing.



His radical expansion of govt. says it all about just how bad he is. He is making Jimmy Carter look good.
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Frankly, that's more myth and tea party hyperbole than anything else. The beckish tea party movement has a lot of facts wrong. So, first you have to actually be concern with the factual truth before any can actually move on in debate.
 
Boo Radley said:
Frankly, that's more myth and tea party hyperbole than anything else. The beckish tea party movement has a lot of facts wrong. So, first you have to actually be concern with the factual truth before any can actually move on in debate.
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Boo, so tell us exactly what FACTS that the tea party has wrong. Do you want me to provide you the definition of fact before answering the question? All I see from you are half truths, distortions, and diversions thus nothing of substance.

You want so badly to believe what you are told but the fact is everyone telling you what you want to hear has an agenda and none of it is to better you, your family, or the American people. Today's Democrat Party is all about keeping the "little man" dependent and you support it.
 
Conservative said:
Boo, so tell us exactly what FACTS that the tea party has wrong. Do you want me to provide you the definition of fact before answering the question? All I see from you are half truths, distortions, and diversions thus nothing of substance.

You want so badly to believe what you are told but the fact is everyone telling you what you want to hear has an agenda and none of it is to better you, your family, or the American people. Today's Democrat Party is all about keeping the "little man" dependent and you support it.
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fact (fkt)
n.
1. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.
2.
a. Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact.
b. A real occurrence; an event: had to prove the facts of the case.
c. Something believed to be true or real: a document laced with mistaken facts.
3. A thing that has been done, especially a crime: an accessory before the fact.
4. Law The aspect of a case at law comprising events determined by evidence: The jury made a finding of fact.
Idiom:
in (point of) fact
In reality or in truth; actually.

Start with the socialism silliness, move through the death panel false hoods, visit the universal health care lie, and make sure to pause at the tax increase that hasn't happened yet, along with the but don't touch my SS and medicare contradiction.

Do that and I think you'll see what I'm talking about. ;)
 
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