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Fox News viewers overwhelmingly misinformed about health care reform proposals.

Devil505 said:
Some of the things you mentioned I actually agree with like tort reform but, like Drill Baby Drill was last summer, those GOP soundbites are dodges, deflections & meaningless BS in terms of fixing the real HC problems this country faces.
When you guys stop trying to trick us & actually start trying to help....We'll talk. Until then........quick jabs & smart alec remarks is all your side deserves.
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WHY? I asked you multiple times to support your opinion. Just do it. Everything that I said will drive down costs and quality and choice up significantly. Allowing people to buy out of state will end the virtual monopolies that pop up in many states. Dismantling the HMO system gets rid of an expensive middle man, and mandates force people to buy coverage for things that they don't want. Rebuttal that, leave, or concede. Don't make strawman remarks about a party that I'm not a part of.

Devil505 said:
The real goal we seek is universally AVAILABLE & universally AFFORDABLE HC for all citizens....Period...Full Stop!
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The real goal that I and most Americans seek is to improve the healthcare system for as many people as possible.
 
Devil505 said:
Are you kidding?? After the last 8 years with you Repubs in control....I wouldn't trust you guys with 10 cents...let alone $1050.00!
(why do you think we threw you out of the WH & Congress?
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Ah, so if the housing market didn't crash and take the economy with it, you'd have sent me the money at the possiblity of making a 5% gain? Just goes to show you.. Libs aren't the brightest bunch.

Even though it's still early, things are lookng very bad for the democrats. Maybe your party doesn't have the support you want to imagine it does?

Experts are saying there is about a 25 - 35% chance the dems lose control of the house and expect dems to easily lose between 20 -50. I know people that voted for Obama that greatly regret their vote.



So good luck.
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
Everything that I said will drive down costs and quality and choice up significantly.
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No it won't do anything at all, except let the insurance companies make even more money. We all know that a public option is the only thing that will keep prices affordable.
 
Devil505 said:
No it won't do anything at all, except let the insurance companies make even more money. We all know that a public option is the only thing that will keep prices affordable.
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Again, a declaritive statement. The "everyone knows" line is a fallacy. I'm going to bed, but tomarrow, I'd be glad to see you show why not the options that I proposed, and only a UHC can drive down costs
 
Devil505 said:
No it won't do anything at all, except let the insurance companies make even more money. We all know that a public option is the only thing that will keep prices affordable.
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How can you say this when you know private insurance companies will not be able to keep up with the government's prices? If this Administration has shown anything in the short time it has been in office its that they do not care how much they spend, which is a quality a business cannot afford to have. And when the private option does die, what happens then? We keep supporting all americans health with money we do not have?

As far as Fox news bias, it is overwhelming. I watch Fox, MSNBC, and CNN (ehhh occasionally) and they all have extreme bias, but Obama works hard enough to sell his plan that the Liberal media is just redundant. At least Fox gives an opposing argument and, while sometimes farfetched, has legitimate concerns with the current plan of reform.
 
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MikeVFF said:
How can you say this when you know private insurance companies will not be able to keep up with the government's prices?
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Funny......Fedex, DHL & UPS have no problem competing with the USPS.
Besides, don't you think the insurance industry makes enough money elsewhere? Why do we have to pay them a profit for getting sick?
 
Oh how grand! Another idiot poll from the morons at NBC!

Guess what folks! If you believe that legalizing drugs would lead to higher rates of abuse you'd be wrong because.. guess what! Increasing abuse rates isn't in the bill!

You see everyone, nothing comes from a bill other than what is expressly written in the bill! To think otherwise is being misinformed.

Do you believe welfare policies will completely destroy a generation of families? NONSENSE! Not in the bill!
 
Devil505 said:
Funny......Fedex, DHL & UPS have no problem competing with the USPS.
Besides, don't you think the insurance industry makes enough money elsewhere? Why do we have to pay them a profit for getting sick?
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Oh they don't? See, last I saw, USPS offers lower prices in some cases because of monopoly power granted by the government.

Ever tried sending a first-class letter with UPS? Yeah, didn't think so.

Wikipedia said:
FedEx and United Parcel Service (UPS) directly compete with USPS express mail and package delivery services, making nationwide deliveries of urgent letters and packages. Due to the postal monopoly, they are not allowed to deliver non-urgent letters and may not use U.S. Mail boxes at residential and commercial destinations. These services also deliver packages which are larger and heavier than what the USPS will accept.
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phattonez said:
Oh they don't? See, last I saw, USPS offers lower prices in some cases because of monopoly power granted by the government.

Ever tried sending a first-class letter with UPS? Yeah, didn't think so.
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So what???
My point is a valid one in that they do compete quite well with USPS in the area of parcels. Your point is meaningless.
 
Devil505 said:
So what???
My point is a valid one in that they do compete quite well with USPS in the area of parcels. Your point is meaningless.
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But what about regular first-class mail? It's a government monopoly and none of us have any choice but to use USPS for first-class mail, even if private companies could do it better.
 
phattonez said:
But what about regular first-class mail? It's a government monopoly and none of us have any choice but to use USPS for first-class mail, even if private companies could do it better.
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But what about delivering pizza?
or
Making toilet paper?
or
Building jet fighters
or
any one of the millions of other things that Fedex & UPS don't compete in???...We're talking about head to head parcel competition.....Nothing else........& they do compete quite successfully with the government in that field, right?
 
Devil505 said:
But what about delivering pizza?
or
Making toilet paper?
or
Building jet fighters
or
any one of the millions of other things that Fedex & UPS don't compete in???...We're talking about head to head parcel competition.....Nothing else........& they do compete quite successfully with the government in that field, right?
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Because the government has a policy of not subsidizing USPS. In that way, it is kind of like an independent company, but let's not fool ourselves. USPS gets help from its monopoly status on first-class mail.

So why does UPS still succeed despite that? They prey on government inefficiencies and because that service is not directly subsidized. Directly subsidize it so that UPS cannot compete with the rates, and UPS and FedEX will go out of business.
 
phattonez said:
Because the government has a policy of not subsidizing USPS. In that way, it is kind of like an independent company, but let's not fool ourselves. USPS gets help from its monopoly status on first-class mail.
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& Papa Ginos gets help from making their own pizza dough.......So what?????
 
phattonez said:
So why does UPS still succeed despite that? They prey on government inefficiencies.
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So you admit that private business can compete with the government, right? (that's kinda the whole point here);)

So then...we are in agreement: A public HC option would help competition by giving us more choice & still be fair to the private sector, right?
 
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Devil505 said:
& Papa Ginos gets help from making their own pizza dough.......So what?????
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They don't have a monopoly on making pizza dough. Big difference.

Devil505 said:
So you admit that private business can compete with the government, right? (that's kinda the whole point here);)
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They can compete if it's not subsidized (because at that point it's a lot like a private company, but don't confuse it with a private company). Have you ever wondered why there are no more private transit agencies? It's because they can't compete with government transit agencies that offer heavily subsidized rates.
 
I'm back devil, tell me, how will a government entitlement program out perform insurance companies competeing in a real free market when it comes to efficency?
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
I'm back devil, tell me, how will a government entitlement program out perform insurance companies competeing in a real free market when it comes to efficency?
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I reject the premise of your question. What you characterize as a "government entitlement program " will be nothing more than another OPTION that we taxpayers can either choose or walk away from.

As a former federal employee, I had that option which is:

1. Paid for by the employee, just like any other type on HC insurance
2. Is run by BC/BS, Harvard Pilgrim or any number of private insurance companies....Not by the government
3. Taken advantage of by John McCain, John Boehner & ALL the other GOP Congressional leaders (without a single exception) that have theirs, but just want to prevent us from getting ours.
 
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Devil505 said:
I reject the premise of your question. What you characterize as a "government entitlement program " will be nothing more than another OPTION that we taxpayers can either choose or walk away from.
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No matter what, we have to pay for it. It also has the power to displace private insurers. You've yet to talk about how this would cut costs over a free market system.

Devil505 said:
As a former federal employee, I had that option which is:

1. Paid for by the employee, just like any other type on HC insurance
2. Is run by BC/BS, Harvard Pilgrim or any number of private insurance companies....Not by the government
3. Taken advantage of by John McCain, John Boehner & ALL the other GOP Congressional leaders (without a single exception) that have theirs, but just want to prevent us from getting ours.
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I'm not going to respond to any more strawman comments that you make toward me about the GOP
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
No matter what, we have to pay for it.
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The employee pays for his own insurance. Not the taxpayer.
DrunkenAsparagus said:
It also has the power to displace private insurers.
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Any better/cheaper system always (thankfully) has the power to displace worse systems/products. That's called competition.

DrunkenAsparagus said:
You've yet to talk about how this would cut costs over a free market system.
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It will create more competition which always is benefuicial to a free market.



DrunkenAsparagus said:
I'm not going to respond to any more strawman comments that you make toward me about the GOP
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If you replace the word "Strawman" with the word "Logical" in your above sentence, it would make more sense. (you can easily call anything a "Strawman" argument if you can't argue against it.;)

Makes life much easier!:lol:
 
Devil505 said:
The employee pays for his own insurance. Not the taxpayer.
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How will this solve the problem if it's people not able to buy insurance?

Devil505 said:
Any better/cheaper system always (thankfully) has the power to displace worse systems/products. That's called competition.


It will create more competition which always is benefuicial to a free market.
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Government entitlements don't create more competition. They simply crush it


Devil505 said:
If you replace the word "Strawman" with the word "Logical" in your above sentence, it would make more sense. (you can easily call anything a "Strawman" argument if you can't argue against it.;)

Makes life much easier!:lol:
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You keep talking about anyone who goes against your want of expanded government a Republican, and attack them for it whether or not they're in the GOP. That isn't logical, that's foolish. I don't care what the GOP leadership's healthcare is like anymore than the Democratic leadership's
 
Glenn Beck and Hannity fans speak their minds. (as it were)


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKBa9K_vAm8"]YouTube - Anti Healthcare Protest - Town Hall Health Care Reform Protesters - USS Constitution[/ame]



"The U.S.S. Constitution" -- I love that guy!!!!

:2funny:

And the "Brown Shirt" lady -- classic.
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
How will this solve the problem if it's people not able to buy insurance?
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The whole point is to make HC affordable.




DrunkenAsparagus said:
Government entitlements don't create more competition. They simply crush it
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This is not an entitlement......It's an option.




DrunkenAsparagus said:
You keep talking about anyone who goes against your want of expanded government a Republican, and attack them for it whether or not they're in the GOP. That isn't logical, that's foolish. I don't care what the GOP leadership's healthcare is like anymore than the Democratic leadership's
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I point out the GOP Senators since their the ones against HC reform while they take full advantage of THEIR public option for it.
 
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