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Fox News viewers overwhelmingly misinformed about health care reform proposals.

Devil505 said:
Yeah.......How terrible that we wouldn't have to pay someone a profit if we get cancer....Un-American I call it. (next thing you know they'll be taking the profit motive out of your local fire Dept.....or the cop on the beat won't get that nice X-mas bonus for arresting the drug dealers near your kid's school!)

When did we raise profit to the level of a deity & whatever happened to the idea of helping your neighbor out.....for free?
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If we all just held out a helping hand to the best of our ability that would be great. The thing is that we don't. Government isn't terribly good at running much. The program is well intentioned, but that means jack **** compared to the results. Profit motive and competition make things more efficent.
 
Devil505 said:
First of all....WE are the government, collectively....&
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The government, especially one of 300,000,000 can't be representative of all of our interests. That's one of the reasons why to keep it small

Devil505 said:
WE can & should do things (collectively) to help each other out & not expect to make a profit on everything.
(if you see a car crash, do you negotiate a nice profit for yourself b4 you help the people out of the burning cars?)

Some things you should do because it is the moral thing to do.....Like providing affordable HC for all citizens.
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Don't pull out the morals and WWJD card. Intentions are absolutely meaningless compared to results.
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
If we all just held out a helping hand to the best of our ability that would be great. The thing is that we don't. Government isn't terribly good at running much. The program is well intentioned, but that means jack **** compared to the results. Profit motive and competition make things more efficent.
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Efficiency is not the GOD that the GOP wants us all to worship above all else.
 
American said:
Sorry, that's socialism.
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Oh please!! just a GOP soundbite that has no meaning at all.(must be so nice living in your B&W world where everything is easy & no thought is ever required)
 
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Devil505 said:
Efficiency is not the GOD that the GOP wants us all to worship above all else.
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I'm not in the GOP, but efficency that has resulted from a free market has given us the world's largest economy and the greatest prosperity ever enjoyed by man. So it's not as touchy feely as you like. It works. There are ways to get people into the system, but they involve less, not more government
 
Devil505 said:
First of all....WE are the government, collectively....&

WE can & should do things (collectively) to help each other out & not expect to make a profit on everything.
(if you see a car crash, do you negotiate a nice profit for yourself b4 you help the people out of the burning cars?)

Some things you should do because it is the moral thing to do.....Like providing affordable HC for all citizens.
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Back to my main point, when companies aren't able to make "obscene profits" on the billions of dollars they spend on R&D the companies won't spend it.

They aren't going to spend the bllions out of the good of their hearts or because it's the "moral thing to do".
 
buck said:
Back to my main point, when companies aren't able to make "obscene profits" on the billions of dollars they spend on R&D the companies won't spend it.

They aren't going to spend the bllions out of the good of their hearts or because it's the "moral thing to do".
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Aren't FAIR profits OK anymore?....Do they now all have to be obscene like Exxon-Mobil's?
 
Devil505 said:
Aren't FAIR profits OK anymore?....Do they now all have to be obscene like Exxon-Mobil's?
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What gives you the right to determine what's "obscene"?

BTW Exxon Mobil's profit margins weren't that large when they boasted record profits.
 
Devil505 said:
Aren't FAIR profits OK anymore?....Do they now all have to be obscene like Exxon-Mobil's?
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To take all that risk with that much capital? No.

Would you spend 10 dollars to have a small chance to make .50 (5% profit)?

If so, why would you bother with the risk? Just put your money in a bank CD. It doesn't entail the risk that R&D does.

In order to line up investment (especially of the size required), they need to have the chance for "obscene profits" - yes, that dirty word "profit" (shudder).
 
Devil505 said:
Aren't FAIR profits OK anymore?....Do they now all have to be obscene like Exxon-Mobil's?
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XOM has a margin of almost 9.0% (ref: yahoo financial). Again, why should XOM take the risk of running the business for a return they can make in compeltely safe investment with no risk at all?
 
buck said:
To take all that risk with that much capital? No.
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At least an honest answer. Fair profits are not good enough anymore....Business must rape the people for all they can get, eh?

Is it any wonder that most Amnericans don;'t fall for that GOP greed anymore & want a FAIR, affordable HC system that avoids the rape you love so much.
 
Devil505 said:
At least an honest answer. Fair profits are not good enough anymore....Business must rape the people for all they can get, eh?

Is it any wonder that most Amnericans don;'t fall for that GOP greed anymore & want a FAIR, affordable HC system that avoids the rape you love so much.
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You still never answered, why would a company earn 5.0% on a very risky adventure, when they can earn that in a very safe bank CD? THe goodness of their heart?

The thing is, I know you wouldn't take the risk either.

Human nature it's been around much longer then the GOP.

Countries that have tried to circumvent it have failed.
 
buck said:
Government will be artificially keeping cost down - it's one of his main objectives.
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You mean like... The Post Office. The Military. National Parks. Interstate Highways. And many other Federal services we receive for a fraction of what it would cost if a private company were running things.

Government inefficiency and waste? A fair amount, yes. Abuses? Sometimes. But when I want to send a small box for $6.00. I don't go to Fed EX or UPS.


Oh, what we take for granted...
 
Devil505 said:
At least an honest answer. Fair profits are not good enough anymore....Business must rape the people for all they can get, eh?
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Except that they usually can't in a free market system. Our healthcare system isn't a free market system. The government messes it up by sucking up to special interests and trying too much to help the little guy

Devil505 said:
Is it any wonder that most Amnericans don;'t fall for that GOP greed anymore & want a FAIR, affordable HC system that avoids the rape you love so much.
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If you want the insurance companies to stop "raping" you, demand that Washington allows buying out of state insurance, tort reform, dismantle the HMO system, and remove most of the mandates that regulate what kind of insurance that you can buy.
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
If you want the insurance companies to stop "raping" you, demand that Washington allows buying out of state insurance, tort reform, dismantle the HMO system, and remove most of the mandates that regulate what kind of insurance that you can buy.
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Ah......This summer's version of ......."Drill Baby Drill"

That worked out real well for your side last year too, didn't it? (& yes....YOUR side is the GOP side)


Meaningless slogans, soundbites, stunts, tricks & scare tactics won't work anymore. We want REAL HC reform &.....we will get it.....this year.
 
hazlnut said:
You mean like... The Post Office. The Military. National Parks. Interstate Highways. And many other Federal services we receive for a fraction of what it would cost if a private company were running things.
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All of these things waste a lot of money. They would also cost more to those who use them, but for much of that, why should I pay for something that I won't use? Some of them are useful, because efficency isn't the thing necessary for a nations, like the military.

hazlnut said:
Government inefficiency and waste? A fair amount, yes. Abuses? Sometimes. But when I want to send a small box for $6.00. I don't go to Fed EX or UPS.

Oh, what we take for granted...
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When was the last time that the Post Office turned a profit?
 
Devil505 said:
Ah......This summer's version of ......."Drill Baby Drill"

That worked out rel well for your side last year too, didn't it?


Meaningless slogans, soundbites, stunts, tricks & scare tactics won't work anymore. We want REAL HC reform &.....we will get it.....this year.
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An actual argument against these would be nice
 
So you have no argument at all against anything that I proposed?
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
So you have no argument at all against anything that I proposed?
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Here, i'll sum up hs argument. "profit bad!"

BTW, opening compentition across state lines would make a large difference. It would get rid of the regional monopolies.

I also think getting rid of the 50 state DOIs would make a big difference.

It's expensive for insurance companies to have to comply with 50 different laws (or how ever many states they may operate in).
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
So you have no argument at all against anything that I proposed?
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Some of the things you mentioned I actually agree with like tort reform but, like Drill Baby Drill was last summer, those GOP soundbites are dodges, deflections & meaningless BS in terms of fixing the real HC problems this country faces.
When you guys stop trying to trick us & actually start trying to help....We'll talk. Until then........quick jabs & smart alec remarks is all your side deserves.

The real goal we seek is universally AVAILABLE & universally AFFORDABLE HC for all citizens....Period...Full Stop!
 
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Devil505 said:
Some of the things you mentioned I actually agree with like tort reform but, like Drill Baby Drill was last summer, those GOP soundbites are dodges, deflections & meaningless BS in terms of fixing the real HC problems this country faces.
When you guys stop trying to trick us & actually start trying to help....We'll talk. Until then........quick jabs & smart alec remarks is all your side deserves.
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You know, I have a hell of a deal for you. You send me $1,000.00 and I'll send you back $1,050.00 in a year. I know you'll be happy with that, because, well, you wouldn't want to make too much profit. Never mind the risk that you'll actually get it back from me.
 
buck said:
You know, I have a hell of a deal for you. You send me $1,000.00 and I'll send you back $1,050.00 in a year. I know you'll be happy with that, because, well, you wouldn't want to make too much profit. Never mind the risk that you'll actually get it back from me.
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Are you kidding?? After the last 8 years with you Repubs in control....I wouldn't trust you guys with 10 cents...let alone $1050.00!
(why do you think we threw you out of the WH & Congress?
 
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